Gunboards Forums banner

1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,327 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Accidents with Japanese Rifles.
Topic:
Topic author: rcb
Subject: Accidents with Japanese Rifles.
Posted on: 03/11/2005 3:29:29 PM
Message:
I would like to see how many accidents that any of us know about where someone was hurt due to the fault of the rifle. I'm talking about with the correct ammunition. Any gun is unsafe with the wrong ammo nor is it to include training rifles, training rifles of any nation are unsafe with live ammo. rcb.

Replies:

Reply author: seinen
Replied on: 03/11/2005 5:03:28 PM
Message:

Supposedly in the 1950s or 60s, a shooter in Maine was attemtping to fire some reloaded ammunition in a Japanese training rifle. The ammunition vendor was supposedly the Howe Fur Company, also lcated in Maine. The shooter was killed. If this story is accurate, does anyone know the specifics?

C/

Reply author: Ronin48
Replied on: 03/11/2005 5:21:55 PM
Message:
Know of three blow-ups, one person hurt, one done on purpose and the third-???

Stan Zielinski has the remains of a barreled receiver with the base of a rimmed cartridge still in it. Apparently this was a blow up test.

Old gunsmith had parts of a 99 mounted on a board at Tulsa last Oct.? Photos of the rifle are in one of the last year's BANZAIs.
He got a face full of metal, thinks the barrel was plugged.

I bought a $50 99 for parts, about one inch section of the right side of the receiver blown out, took sliver of stock. No history on this one. Kept it 'as-is."

And another, in early 80s planned to do an accuracy test with early and late 99. Asked through B'ZAI for some original 7.7. Received a nice letter from Fred Honeycutt warning about the late rifles. He shot one five, six times to show friend it was safe. Friend shot it once and it let go, was not hurt as I remember. Perhaps Fred will correct my memory.

And another. Warren Sessler fired his Type 5 for a TV documentry (working from memory) Later they wanted him to fire it again, someone gave him a round. KA-BOOM and the T-5 was history, think maybe Warren had some eye damage???

Reply author: davef
Replied on: 03/11/2005 5:39:49 PM
Message:
I had a series 10 that the safety cracked out at the range...never knew anyone had a catastrophic breech failure with a japanese gun thought they were a myth myself..unless the barrel was pluged or you handloaded with blasting compound your not blowin that breech.saw a gas vent once from a radical case seperation but the gun wasnt damaged.now I gotta get back to the bar and talk a wee bit o treason...lol...Dave

Reply author: max
Replied on: 03/11/2005 5:50:35 PM
Message:
Freind droped a t99 on my bare foot ,damamaged large toenail and broke a sight ear when it bounced off safes bottom. I am very reluctant to show new finds to my pal now.


Reply author: LANT
Replied on: 03/13/2005 9:32:36 PM
Message:
A gun/militaria shop in my home town has a last-ditch T-99 that a customer dropped on the concrete floor.The receiver shattered into 3 pieces like it was made of glass. THe early ones have legendary strength but that cured me of even thinking about shooting a later one.

Reply author: davef
Replied on: 03/13/2005 9:36:48 PM
Message:
sounds like it was made of cast iron...I hope it was a trainer not a navy special..of course the parts remaining from a navy special would still fetch a nice price...you might wanna check into it.

Reply author: Ronin48
Replied on: 03/14/2005 08:51:54 AM
Message:
Friend in Montgomery, AL, former Arisaka collector, disassembled a 37th series, early rifle as I remember, and found the back portion of the receiver had broken away from the front. As I remember the broken area had a pinkish cast. Think this is noted in the T-99 book.

Reply author: seinen
Replied on: 03/14/2005 12:48:02 PM
Message:
For those of you with access to Lexis or Westlaw, there is a 1952 court case from Maine that relates to the death of a New Mexico shooter using reloaded Japanese 7.7 mm ammunition in a "7/7 Jap" rifle.

The cite is "Pate v. Howe", 103 F. Supp. 421 (U.S. District Court for the District of Maine, Southern Division 1952).

C/

Reply author: davef
Replied on: 03/14/2005 3:02:29 PM
Message:
if he was trying to shoot handloads in a trainer ...then its probably a good thing he was removed from the gene pool....natural selection at work it would seem.

Reply author: seinen
Replied on: 03/14/2005 6:46:05 PM
Message:
Despite the tragic outcome, some sections of testimony are almost laughable, given our current 50+ years of hindsight. At one point, the defense was arguing that, if a dustcover had been in place, the accident wouldn't have happened. Their theory was that the cover would have retained the high-velocity receiver chunks that were flying backwards towards the shooter's head. It's pretty clear from the text that Japanese rifles at the time of the accident (1949) didn't enjoy much better a reputation than they have in some circles today. C/

Reply author: fredh
Replied on: 03/14/2005 8:32:24 PM
Message:
This question comes up so often that it would probably be a good idea for Ken to put a sticky at the top on the subject. And every time I see the subject, I want to join in too. I know I must sound like a stuck record. Maybe there's some way to put the subject in perspective. I've been shooting military stuff for over 55 years now. And I've seen a lot of weapons fail, some dramatically.

I have broken parts in a P.38 twice. These were about 1945 production. One failure a couple years ago scared my buddies shooting adjacent to me. I went back to the range looking for the remainder of the parts with a metal detector, but never found them. In my copy of Small Arms of the World, there is a warning posted on shooting late war P.38's.

About 10 years ago a fellow shooting at the range blew a 98k. If I remember correctly, they blamed hot ammo on that one. It seems the importer acknowledged bringing some substandard 8mm. in from South America. Even at that, I've always thought 98k's could handle most anything.

Probably 40 years ago, while shooting at the company range, fellow shooters watching my 1917 Enfield smoking significantly after firing, talked me into stopping shooting that particular ammo. I've still got that Lake City ammo somewhere, and I think it was working on my rifle pretty hard. At the time I wasn't afraid of anything and loved the recoil.

Probably my favorite pistol, and yet the most dangerous, is the broomhandle. Early models prior to the 1930 commercial have very small radii in the cut-out for the bolt stop. This leads to a high stress concentration factor and failure in the barrel extension. I've talked with a lot of people who've experienced failures with this pistol. I remember Frank Knapp calling me one night telling me about his failure. A friend in N.C. had one of the full auto models I wanted to fire and was willing to take the risk. When I asked him about taking it out that afternoon for a little practice, he searched around his massive collection and pulled out an early cone hammer that had failed as he fired it. I remember the fellow who brought the first brooms in from China telling me about blowing one of the .45 models. I know of maybe a dozen more of the broom stories, and that firearm was produced for over 40 years by the Mauser factory.

I question the design of the Carcanos. There is a small approx .060 dia pin holding the bolt guts in place. The rifle is written up extensively as a safe rifle, but I did receive a specimen from an importer years ago with the pin stripped and the firing pin, safety, etc., hanging in place on a nub.

I've seen a G-43 slide fly off and over the shoulder of a shooter.

One of my favorite stories is of a friend back home in N.C. firing a full mag in a heavy Breda m.g. The bolt did not recoil enough to pick up the sear and emptied the mag. He was shooting prone, held on for the ride, and ended up facing the opposite direction and very shook up.

I am sure most late war T99's are safe, as are most 98k's, Moisons, etc. To my way of thinking, it's not just Japanese rifles, it's the whole spectrum. It should be recommended that all rifles be checked by a competent gunsmith before firing. Safety should be the issue here.



Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 03/14/2005 9:29:36 PM
Message:
Glad to say I've never had a major mishap. Long ago I used to pride myself on shooting everything I owned, at least once. Any more it's kinda costly, since I don't reload - yet. In the '70s I would often shoot some original ammo (loose rounds that wern't real pretty). Loved the sound of original 6.5s. Nothing else sounds like that. Every now & then I'd notice smoke coming out of the vent holes. This usually meant a split case or a ruptured primer. They thought out these designs pretty darn well!


Gunboards : http://old.gunboards.com/
© 2000-2006 Gunboards



 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,425 Posts
Well here I go again:
One time saw early 99 with all bells & whistles, it was blown in the magazine area, end result of someone drilling a hole into the barrel right through the bottom drain hole. The rifle sat on the matlepiece for 40 years without a problem, then the old vet's son decided to buy some Norma 7.7 ammo at the Ventura show and took the old man's rifle for a test, first round failure. The son got an arm full of slivers only, rifle was wasted.
Also had a fellow walking around the Great Western trying to sell a Japanese rifle and bayonet for 75.00 after talking to him he said that the rifle wasn't very good as it keyholed the target with 6.5 ammo. The rifle was a trainer with a smooth bore barrel. Thank God it didn't blow up, the barrel was nice, clean and shinny with long axis lines created by the wiggling bullet. Took it off his hands for 75.00, the bayonet was a rocking star and worth every penny, gave the trainer to my friend Keep to keep the souvenier.
Vicasoto
 

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
3,255 Posts
Here's a few pics. First is from a gun magazine that claimed it went KaBoom from shooting 7.92 through it. I think this rifle may have found it's way to Doss at one time or another.
The second is a T38 carbine from a rescent shoot in Arizona. It was a Chinese export that had been demiled for parade, but sold as a rifle here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,327 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The picture with the band aid wrappers and the first aid kit is priceless!
 

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
3,255 Posts
The picture with the band aid wrappers and the first aid kit is priceless!
Luckily tne injuries were minor. The shooter suffered from a messed up finger (everyone thought it was broke) that was cut up, and another shooter got a fragment to the face that drew blood. It could have been worse!
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top