A pat on the back if you can tell me what this is...

Fence_Post_Collector · Nov 30, 2008

Ok, so i was at a gun auction today and found this sporterized mauser, which i bought for $200. I originally thought that it was a gew kar 98a. It was labeled gew 98, as you can see in the pictures, it had a curved bolt and it is short enough to be a carbine. It is also stamped Amberg 1917. Great right, the only thing is that all the information i have found on the subject states that Amberg didn't make a carbine version of the gew 98 in 1917, as they stopped production of this rifle in 1911. This led me to believe that someone put a short barrel on the gun at some point, but when i looked at the numbers on the receiver and the barrel they were the same (meaning the barrel goes with this gun). My second thought was that someone cut off the barrel, but the sight on the gun is a 98a sight (i think but thats why i included a picture of it). From what i understand the barrel on a 98a is 23", so i measured the barrel and from the tip to the receiver is 22" with one more inch being in the receiver bringing the overall barrel length to 23". So what’s up with this? I would really like to know. My only fear is that it is a gew 98 with a cut down barrel. If you could give me any history about this gun I would love to here from you too, Thanks.
Here’s the pictures and the numbers on the gun:

On receiver:
Top: Amberg 1917, with crown on top
left: 4841
right: B A O with crowns on top of all

also "Gew. 98."

On the Barrel:
Top:7,91 and an "S" by the sight
left: 4841 and 8mm
right: "S/42G", "[P][74]", "[k][155]"

I can also make out a Crown and an "A" on the stock

Pisgah · Nov 30, 2008

It's a WWI Gewehr 98 that was shortened/modified to Kar.98k specs in the 1930's. These markings ("S/42G", "[P][74]", "[k][155]" ) are found on the Kar.98k type rear sight base. Post some photos and you may get a bit more information.

Fence_Post_Collector · Nov 30, 2008

Kursk · Nov 30, 2008

well to me it looks like the original barrel may have been cut down on a lathe and turned to a narrower diameter so that the front site sleeve could fit.

anttom · Nov 30, 2008

Gew98 - K98k Conversion Sporterized

Yeah the stock and barrel have been sporterized. Too bad because GEW98 to K98k conversions are kind of rare.

SimsonSuhl · Nov 30, 2008

Its not rare, its a Spanish chop chop.. these were delivered to Spain by arms sales through interest loans, the Italians were much friendlier more gifts and forgiving loans (the nazis got just about every cent paid back on their loans during the war.. plus some.. the nazis were a little aggressive with their fascist friends and usually tied any arms sales or trade goods on a partial payment of these loans- Franco was a comedy act worth following, history has treated him well compared to what he deserved, but he did manage to keep out of the war and only a cold shoulder after 1945 from the “United Nations” as they called themselves back then)

Anyway, some say the Condor Legion left behind arms too but the German sold the Spanish a ton of equipment during their crisis fighting socialist and communists.

Unfortunately these Gew98's tend to be a little screwed up when they got here, I suspect the importer did a lot of this, many Gew98's are "Mannlicher'd" and some like this arsed up shortening, some come back ok except for a paint job (black paint.. I guess cheaper than blue?)

Anyway, these “shorties” are fairly common, and 17/Amberg is very common anyway, - this is not a "German" conversion to 98k (it’s a Gew98M shortened by Spain or more probably an importer?).

I still think this "conversion" theme Backbonehead started is largely fantasy.. most by far of the Gew98 to 98k conversions were nothing more than a Gew98 receiver re-barreled to 98k using all new 98k ordnance spare barrels and or salvaged parts.

Very few of the German “cutdowns” exist, they are known to have been done before the 98k existed, 1930 or so, but how many have been documented? None really.. I think John Wall might have had one for sale recently, but I can’t say I have ever seen any for sure.

Regis Rex · Nov 30, 2008

Germany/Spain/Interarms. Interarms did the chop job. They bought several boatloads of old weapons from Spain in the 50's/60's.

Fence_Post_Collector · Dec 1, 2008

Hey guys, thanks for all the information its been a big help. I have only two questions, if it was a Spanish rifle wouldn't they have converted it to a 7mm Spanish round or later a .308? And are any of the markings i have shown consistent with import or Spanish marks? If you need any more pics or details of what's on the gun i would be happy to help. Thanks again...

SimsonSuhl · Dec 1, 2008

I don't follow Spanish arms or military matters however I doubt it.. mid-war the Spanish were getting 20% of German arms exports (a huge amount considering Spain was still neutral) they wanted airplanes, & arty, most of all, but everything they could get they wanted, - I know they received small arms and 6,000 machineguns at a rough time for Germany.
I really doubt they weren't supplied in the 7.92 in the midst of the war.. anyway, the Spanish were heavily dependant upon Italian and lesser so German arms late 30's through 44, and the Germans needed the Spanish even more (or they wouldn't have sold them arms and planes- even the few they sent were probably more than could be spared with idiotic military decisions currently underway..)

Anyway, you might take the subject of Spanish arms to the Mauser side? As I only follow the relationship from the German perspective.

Oh, markings, sometimes the stocks have the "MP8 bomb" marking or something like that? Its some form of acceptance.. there are collectors who follow Spanish practices, I’d seek them out.

SimsonSuhl · Dec 1, 2008

Err, well seeing as you offered to help, maybe get me the barrel code? It should be under the wood along the bottom of the barrel, - it can be anywhere along the bottom even in front of the rearsight.

I have finished my 98k barrel study, a massive undertaking believe me.. but the Imperial era rifles are a whole different thing.. whereas I had over 1k 98k barrel codes (have 1400 now), I have barely 200 (probably not even) Imperial codes.

More the merrier but to even start a study on barrel coding, I would like at least 1k for the Imperial study.

If you can..

Fence_Post_Collector said:
If you need any more pics or details of what's on the gun i would be happy to help. Thanks again...

Fence_Post_Collector · Dec 1, 2008

I can get those numbers for you but its going to be a few weeks as I am going to be out of town.

SimsonSuhl · Dec 1, 2008

I'm use to waiting.. hurry up & wait, arsehole to belly button for 8 years I know all about waiting..

Thanks!

anttom · Dec 1, 2008

I Owned An SS Gew98 to K98k Conversion

I owned a SS2 Totenkopf Gew98 to K98k conversion. The thing that was neat about it was the Germans captured it from the Poles before the conversion and it had a Radom proof mark on it too! Obviously, done after 1939. The more I look at this particular rifle the more I see that it is not a GEW98-K98k conversion. It is a GEW98M that has had the barrel disturbingly cut down in a rather ugly way.This was one bad sporter job done by a gunsmith with poor skills.

kysunfish · Dec 1, 2008

Front Sight Base

That sight sleave started life as a Turk. The one I have (barrel) was made at MO in Germany. A set screw under the blade and a little bit of solder is all that holds them on. Not the best set-up as many will turn. The blade is an aftermarket of sort. Sunfish

Regis Rex · Dec 1, 2008

Spain adopted the 7.92 round with the M43 clone of the K98k. And that front sight isn't Turk, it's the original GEW98 sight.

A pat on the back if you can tell me what this is...

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