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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I originally posted this on K98kforums but I decided to move it here as well to get a wide opinion as to what this rifle is exactly.

I manually added some white from a white tire marking crayon that a friend had, and after seeing the effect it had on his rifles, I gave it a try here.

Two markings in the barrel channel appear to be an Eagle with swastika and the letter "E". The third appears to be a Weimar style eagle but it is unconfirmed.

It has been suggested she is a post war put together of parts in order to sell but I believe there is something more to her than just that.

My first two impressions were:

1. She was put together by one of the concentration camp facilities that put together rifles from various parts.

or

2. She was a sporting rifle that was given (taken ?) by the state and re-worked into Kar98k specification with whatever parts were available and handed out to the troops.

Hello everyone,

I went out to the range near a buddy's place of residence and along the way, had to make a detour to pick up some reloading equipment that was needed. Instead of walking out with the shellholders that the reloading press required, I also walked out with this beautiful Standard modell 1924 that appeared to be a late war re-work at one point. It was interesting that, as I was about to leave the gun shop, one of the associates walked out of the back room with this rifle after showing me the entire milsurp rifle collection. After holding her, and seeing that the bore was mint, I simply could not give her back. The associate happened to mention that she had just come in a day earlier as well. Perhaps it was fate ?

To describe the rifle...where to begin ? My knowledge of late war Kar98ks is not the greatest but being quite familiar with pre-war and early war configurations and referring to my 1940 J.P. Sauer & Son Kar98k, I was able to say that this particular rifle does not fit the standard pre/early war style.

The receiver is simply stamped with the Mauser commercial logo and the year 1933. The four commercial proof inspector marks are on the left side of the receiver along with the serial number of 50019 followed by "Standard Modell 1924" on the right receiver wall. The bluing on the receiver is simply amazing. It is a deep blue with a very fine polish.

The barrel has no serial number or visible proof marks on it of any kind above the stock line. You can see, however, the machining marks from the manufacturing process and you can feel them too, very lightly, when you run your finger down the barrel towards the front sight. The rear sight base appears to be a later replacement as the bluing on it does not match the barrel and it is stamped with two WaA 37s on the right side. The front sight bluing also does not match the barrel and has a provision for a sight hood. When looking at the muzzle, the machining marks are quite visible.

The rear sight, as mentioned before, is WaA marked. The rear sight leaf is plum coloured and the rear sight itself is in the white above the range graduation of 100m. There is a WaA stamped on the underside of the right sight along with a two digit serial number. The rear sight sleeve is unmarked and is of the same bluing and polish as the receiver.

The front and rear bands appear to be standard mid war style. Only the rear band has a partial WaA that has the inspector number rubbed off. The bluing on the front band is very much like the receiver and is also of the same polish as well. The band spring is WaA marked and blued but is different when compared to my 1940 Kar98k which has a plum coloured band spring. It is also a different style that is difficult to describe but I am guessing it is mid to late war style.

A cleaning rod came with the rifle and it appears to be a period item as well with some rust/patina and some pitting near the threaded end. There is also some loss of bluing but overall, it is quite nice.

The stock is the weirdest part of the rifle. It is a red glue laminate stock with cupped butt plate but has no markings what so ever save a single WaA on the take down disc on the right side of the butt stock. The hand guard is walnut and does have a serial number of "1490" stamped on the channel. The stock itself has three markings stamped in the barrel channel in a configuration I have never seen before. On closer inspection, one is definetly an Eagle with a swastika (a possible WaA ?) but the other two I can't really make out. There is no serial number in the barrel channel. The left side of the sling keeper slot has hole drilled into it where a screw once sat but it is no longer there. There also appears to be some glue or something in the hole but you can clearly see thread marks on the interior. The barrel lug has no markings what so ever and is the standard German "H" style lug. It is of the same blue and polished finish as the receiver. The lug is slightly bent towards the barrel and does not accept a bayonet as easily as my J.P. Sauer & Son but it does accept a 84/98 III bayonet with a bit of elbow grease. The recoil lug is unmarked as well. Compared to the laminate stock on my J.P. Sauer & Son, the stock on this rifle is smaller is diameter, lighter, and not as well finished in some areas. The trigger guard is not exactly flush with the stock and sits slightly out from it near the floor plate. The cupped butt plate is also not perfectly centered with the back of the stock and, after removing the cupped butt plate for inspection, I noticed some gunk on the inside of the butt plate that conformed to the laminate wood strand pattern. My buddy suggested that the butt plate was applied before the stock had time to settle. The keeper slot on the right side does not appear to be completely finished and is somewhat visually different when compared to my J.P. Sauer & Son's laminate stock. The butt plate has no WaA or any markings on it.

The trigger guard has a five digit serial number stamped on it. It is 28258. The trigger guard screws have no WaA or serial numbers on them but the rear trigger guard screw's bluing and polish match the receiver. The floor plate has a WaA and a four digit serial number stamped on it. The lock screws are present.

The bolt appears to a be late war style. You can clearly see the machining marks on 80% of the exterior with only the locking lug section and the bolt handle section being somewhat polished. It has a WaA on the bottom of the handle as well. The gas escape holes are circular, not oval as on my J.P. Sauer & Son. The overall metal finish on the handle and bolt knob are quite under that of any bolts I have seen. There is a four digit serial number and suffix stamped on the upper portion of the handle and an electro penciled number on the part covered by the rear bridge when the bolt is locked down in the receiver. It is four digits and does not match the rifle. The firing pin is blued and has a WaA and a four digit number on it. It does not match the receiver. The bolt sleeve has a two digit number and a c/W but it is somewhat difficult to make out. The safety is blued but unmarked. The cocking piece is Czech marked with a "Z in a circle" and is plum coloured. The extractor has a two digit number stamped on it and, at one time, was plum coloured but the plum has mostly worn away.

The bolt stop has the same machining marks found on the bolt and on the barrel. There is a single inspector mark stamped on the exterior and it appears to be the Weimar eagle with a number underneath but it is somewhat faded. There is "S 237" stamped on it as well. The side has some plum colour remaining but not much. The bolt stop screw is blued and polished, just like the receiver and has a c/O stamped on it (matches the one found on the receiver).

The magazine follower has two digit number and WaA stamped on it. The polish and bluing match the receiver.

The magazine spring is blued but not plum coloured like that found on my J.P. Sauer & Son.

Aside from the bolt, there are no electro penciled numbers anywhere on the rifle. The rifle was somewhat covered in cosmoline, especially in the nicks and crannies, even on the barrel channel. There is no serial number stamped into the left side of the butt stock as found on my J.P. Sauer & Son. There is no shellac on the stock either. She is a most unusual Russian capture, that is for sure.

I took her out shooting the other day and she shoots extremely well. In terms of price comparing to other Russian captures I have seen in Canada, she was on the lower end of the scale, even under that of shot out examples so I was quite pleased with my purchase.

Can anyone help with figure out her past ? I have never come across anything like this before.

Thank you all, I will be posting some pictures in a subsequent thread. I took over 100 images but I will post the most important ones or ones that are requested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sad to hear but, on the up side, she shoots great and the price was attractive as well. I will be getting a sight hood for her as well as a sling to make her more complete.

Now that we can agree on her being a parts gun, can anyone figure out the stock ? Those markings in the barrel channel just don't add up to what I have seen on other rifle stocks.

Thank you for your thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, on all my mausers, the serial number of the rifle is stamped into the barrel channel and you will find the appropriate acceptance stamps on the exterior on the stock. Again, before this rifle, I did not own any late war Kar98ks, only pre to early war ones that followed a set pattern of stamps and serial number locations but this one just confused me. What do the stamps in the barrel channel on this particular stock mean ? Why wouldn't there be able acceptance marks stamped on the exterior, say on the right side of the stock ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think I made a bit of progress that may shed some more light on this rifle being more than a simple post war compilation of parts.

The stock has a single WaA on the right take down disc and it is WaA 26. Comparing to the WaA code list from Wikipedia, and noticing that this stock has a cupped butt plate placing it post 1941, the only candidate for stock manufacturer could have been Mauser-Werke Borsigwalde. Further research indicates this depot was located in Berlin. Considering the sheer number of late war parts on this rifle, she may have very well been re-worked in 1944 or 1945. This would also go hand in hand with the lack of markings on exterior of the stock and the ink stamps in the barrel channel.

Just some food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Could be she was mis-matched in Russian service or leading into having some parts dropped in post-war by a collector but since no one is giving me any real answers, what choice do I have but to figure this one out on my own ?

Even if she is simply a "parts gun" put together, I think it would be worth while to investigate the parts that were put on this one. Who knows, maybe there is a really rare part that you don't see on other Kar98ks ?
 

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I don't think there are any real answers to give. You can believe what you want too but unless it follows a known pattern it's just conjecture. Looks like the stock has been lightly sanded and some kind of finish has been applied. The blue in not original on the receiver.
 

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Nabs... You seem to desperately want this to be something more than just a put together bunch of parts. There is NOTHING rare about this rifle, or any of the parts. You can "investigate" from now til doomsday and you will not find anything more than that. No matter how hard you wish it, this IS NOT any kind of late war rework. It is about $300 - $400 in parts if you parted it out, but not much more. Your seeming desire to have this be "something" is striking most folks as bordering on delusional, and this is keeping most from paying attention to your questions on the various parts... They figure you are not wanting to hear the "truth", so why bother providing any answers. I'm not dogging you on this, just telling you how you are coming off to the forum members.
 

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My first two impressions were:

1. She was put together by one of the concentration camp facilities that put together rifles from various parts.
Bingo! A gift to the camp commandant from the inmates thanking him for his kind service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I was hoping it was something more than just simply a put together gun but I guess I got what I paid for in that respect. Bore is mint and she shoots quite well so I guess I can't complain there. It is just confusing why someone would go through the expense rebuilding this rifle, as some forum members have mentioned before, such a venture is a "money pit" at best.

Honestly, I thought I hit the jackpot at the gun shop I was at but I guess not.
 
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