[Bob_The_Student]

I have a few general ammo questions about various situations.

1- After shooting corrovsive ammo and you couldn't get your gun cleaned in a timely manner, for whatever reason, at what point would rust start. If it sat til the next day? If you able to give it the basic rinse out at the range or if you couldn't get anything done at all?

2- Dented cases - should these be used to reload? Is it only a problem in a shoulder of a case? If loaded ammo is has dented case should it be pulled?

3- These cases, pictured below, I found in a box that I used years ago while sighting in a gun for deer season. I think it snowed and they got put away with moisture on them. Only reason that came into my mind. These are RP 30-06. I'm assuming they should not be fired but wondering what some of you thought.

 

[PRD1]

1. It depends on humidity. The KCl salt residue is hygroscopic, absorbing moisture from the atmosphere, but it has been shown that corrosion does not begin until the relative humidity reaches 50% and above. Still, arms fired with corrosive-primed ammunition should be cleaned as soon as possible with a water-based solution, or plain water.
2. Dents in the case are not usually a cause for concern, unless they deform the case enough to prevent chambering, or are deep/sharp enough to cause case separation or split in firing.
3. The corrosion pictured is superficial, and should not be a cause for concern.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[SfcRet]

when it starts to rust depends on the humidity...........very humid it does take long a couple of hours or maybe less.............. dry climates you get a reprieve of a day, but I wouldn't chance it

 

[ammolab]

The red areas of those cases have been a bit de-coppered and may be weekend. No concerns except the one near the base. I would not shoot that one as the case is unsupported near there and a split or crack there has risks.

 

[Whig]

You can have surface rust start inside the barrel and bolt face within 24 hours. That's not saying it will ruin anything. Surface rust eventually starts the pitting process but that weeks, actually. I would not want any surface rust to start in any of my rifles and try to get them cleaned asap after shooting corrosive ammo or even suspected corrosive ammo.

I actually always try to clean my rifles asap after using. Just a habit I have gotten into and it makes me feel better, especially with the more valuable ones!

If you have a rifle with a very clean, tight chamber that you feel is valuable, you might not want to use rusted or corroded ammo. The surface imperfections could scratch or damage the chamber. Doubtful but why chance it? Most milsurps, though, don't fit into this category. Some people will steel wool the corrosion off some and add a little oil to those areas before shooting.

The old way of dealing with a rifle after shooting corrosive ammo is to pee down the barrel. Better than nothing!

 

[ammolab]

The old way of dealing with a rifle after shooting corrosive ammo is to pee down the barrel. Better than nothing!

I hope this is myth, as water is rarely unavailable to troops or shooters. Maybe just a REALLY BAD idea from history, as cleaning out bore salts with a water/salt solution (urine) will do NOTHING to prevent rusting. If water is that scarce?...the urine is going to be extra salty!

Do you wonder now why So many milsurps have rotten bores?

 

[SmokeEater2]

Since we generally have high humidity here in Arkansas I got in the habit of running a patch or two wet with plain air temperature water followed by a dry patch and then a patch soaked with Ballistol before I leave the range and then clean thoroughly when I get home.

It may not be necessary but so far I haven't had an issue with rust. But seeing as how it appears that the supply of corrosive surplus ammo is drying up, It may not be a concern for much longer.

 

[BlackPowder]

Hot water is enough to dissolve and then wash out the salts. I assume piss would be just as effective in a pinch. Obviously less than optimal but better than nothing. A few patches soaked with water, not forgetting to wipe off the bolt face and crown of the barrel, and a couple of patches to dry, followed by a couple with some oil or ballistol, and you should be good to go. No need to overcomplicate. But given how simple this is I’ve never been tempted or forced to find out just how much of a grace period I have.

 

[Sidney Smith]

This corrosive salt business is pure bullshit. Ive cleaned my milsurps that shoot corrosive ammo with nothing but hoppes no.9 followed by a coating of gun oil, and Ive never had one negative issue in decades. Just clean your gun as you would any other rifle and you wont have a problems.

 

[cwousaret]

This corrosive salt business is pure bullshit. Ive cleaned my milsurps that shoot corrosive ammo with nothing but hoppes no.9 followed by a coating of gun oil, and Ive never had one negative issue in decades. Just clean your gun as you would any other rifle and you wont have a problems.

Some years back I shot I shot 4 of my M1 Garands, gave them the usual cleaning with Hoppes and gun oil. I thought I was using non-corrosive ammo, just some loaded clips I had bought at a gun show. The ammo in them I could see were non-corrosive, but unknown to me there was some older corrosive rounds in the clips. When I looked at the 4 guns about 4 days latter I had rust everywhere. It took me 3 cleaning with hot water and everything I could throw at them to get the rust under control. That is the only time it happened to me and the corrosive ammo did it. If I had not checked the guns when I did I would have had permanent damage and almost did anyway. I had used corrosive ammo before, but knew it, and always cleaned the milsurps I used it in to remove the salt residue.

 

[ammolab]

Some years back I shot I shot 4 of my M1 Garands, gave them the usual cleaning with Hoppes and gun oil. I thought I was using non-corrosive ammo, just some loaded clips I had bought at a gun show. The ammo in them I could see were non-corrosive, but unknown to me there was some older corrosive rounds in the clips. When I looked at the 4 guns about 4 days latter I had rust everywhere. It took me 3 cleaning with hot water and everything I could throw at them to get the rust under control. That is the only time it happened to me and the corrosive ammo did it. If I had not checked the guns when I did I would have had permanent damage and almost did anyway. I had used corrosive ammo before, but knew it, and always cleaned the milsurps I used it in to remove the salt residue.

Same thing happened to me with a Krag many years ago..shot it with corrosive GI ammo, cleaned with Hoppes, and the bore developed that darn bullshit rust.

 

[PRD1]

This corrosive salt business is pure bullshit. Ive cleaned my milsurps that shoot corrosive ammo with nothing but hoppes no.9 followed by a coating of gun oil, and Ive never had one negative issue in decades. Just clean your gun as you would any other rifle and you wont have a problems.

While you may have been lucky enough to have avoided rusted barrels, I can certify that the corrosive ammunition problem is not avoided by cleaning with Hoppes or any other solution which does not contain water. There are no solvents of KCl even 1/10th so effective in removing the salt residue as water - a fact you can verify by research. The U.S. government investigated the issue many years ago, and the findings were published in Bureau of Mines Technical Paper #188: "Corrosion Under Oil Films, With Special Reference To The Cause And Prevention Of The After-Corrosion Of Firearms", by Wilbert J. Huff, Government Printing Office, 1922; price five cents.
I learned the hard truth of this more than 50 years ago, with my first 1911. I had been given a large quantity of fairly ancient surplus .45 ammunition, all of it corrosive-primed, and shot some of it. I cleaned the pistol thoroughly with Hoppes, oiled it and put it away. Two weeks later, when I inspected it, the bore was heavily rusted. I cleaned it with water and considerable scrubbing with a bronze brush, oiled it, and never again failed to clean after corrosive ammo with water or G.I. bore cleaner of water-based type.
Over the years since, I have inspected many thousands of arms with barrels ruined by rust because they had been shot with corrosive ammunition and not properly cleaned - mostly because the owners/users did not know the facts, and/or believed the claims of makers of commercial cleaning solutions.
Water is cheap, it works. Why pay for a commercial cleaning product which cannot be relied on?

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[Jim]

This corrosive salt business is pure bullshit. Ive cleaned my milsurps that shoot corrosive ammo with nothing but hoppes no.9 followed by a coating of gun oil, and Ive never had one negative issue in decades. Just clean your gun as you would any other rifle and you wont have a problems.

I concur. I follow this with a good long urination down the barrel for good measure.

 

[MG08/15]

I frosted the bore on a VERY collectable M1 H&R with British proofs after firing GI "non corrosive" ( or so I thought) in OK humid weather. Waited a day, and the bore was a nice rusty red. Hoppes may or may not work. Personally I don't rely on just that . I shoot a lot of corroive surplus ammo, so hot water is just part of the program.

 

[Leon]

This corrosive salt business is pure bullshit. Ive cleaned my milsurps that shoot corrosive ammo with nothing but hoppes no.9 followed by a coating of gun oil, and Ive never had one negative issue in decades. Just clean your gun as you would any other rifle and you wont have a problems.

The "bad penny" just won't go away.

A number of years ago, a poster on the Mosin Nagant Collector's forum performed the definitive test: he put potassium chloride into a test tube full of Hoppe's #9. The potassium chloride did not dissolve.

If ambient conditions are low humidity, and a good oil is applied to the bore immediately after shooting corrosive ammo, the oil coat may prevent moist air - oxygen + water - from contacting the bore and thus inhibit corrosion. If enough Hoppe's #9 saturated patches are pulled, these may mechanically remove the corrosive residue, and a follow up oily patch may be adequate.

Before I began to reload for my Finn M39, I shot a lot of the excellent Serbian M30 corrosive ammo. To deal with the primer salts, I devised a simple gadget to flush the bore at the range, while the bore was still warm.

The device is made from a battery filler from Pep Boys, some tubing, and a cartridge case of the appropriate caliber with its base sawn off. (I added a neoprene O-ring crazy glued to the neck of the case to serve as a seal and keep any water from entering the receiver.) I filled the bulb with a soapy water solution - I like Simple Green - and inserted the chamber adapter into the breech. A squeeze of the bulb and the bore is flushed. Pulling a couple of dry patches immediately after that removed the majority of all fouling. I followed up with a Ballistol patch. Nothing really beats soapy water as a general bore cleaner. especially when the bore is still warm.

 

[Louie]

If you can get ahold of some WW2 bore cleaner that works great. Now, that stuff stinks to high heaven. Use outdoors if possible or possibly face a divorce if done inside a covered area. The WW2 stuff that says poison comes in two flavors. The white liquid isn't that bad, but the black one is way too stinky to do under a covered area. I usually clean at the range, and even then the guns bore will stink for a while afterwards.

 

[ammolab]

The "bad penny" just won't go away.

A number of years ago, a poster on the Mosin Nagant Collector's forum performed the definitive test: he put potassium chloride into a test tube full of Hoppe's #9. The potassium chloride did not dissolve.

If ambient conditions are low humidity, and a good oil is applied to the bore immediately after shooting corrosive ammo, the oil coat may prevent moist air - oxygen + water - from contacting the bore and thus inhibit corrosion. If enough Hoppe's #9 saturated patches are pulled, these may mechanically remove the corrosive residue, and a follow up oily patch may be adequate.

Before I began to reload for my Finn M39, I shot a lot of the excellent Serbian M30 corrosive ammo. To deal with the primer salts, I devised a simple gadget to flush the bore at the range, while the bore was still warm.
View attachment 3816881



The device is made from a battery filler from Pep Boys, some tubing, and a cartridge case of the appropriate caliber with its base sawn off. (I added a neoprene O-ring crazy glued to the neck of the case to serve as a seal and keep any water from entering the receiver.) I filled the bulb with a soapy water solution - I like Simple Green - and inserted the chamber adapter into the breech. A squeeze of the bulb and the bore is flushed. Pulling a couple of dry patches immediately after that removed the majority of all fouling. I followed up with a Ballistol patch. Nothing really beats soapy water as a general bore cleaner. especially when the bore is still warm.

Even easier with most bolt actions: Heat 2” of water in a pan, add some dish soap. Put the muzzle in the water and from the breach use a patch on a cleaning rod to PUMP water up and out the bore several times. This wets the ENTIRE bore which pouring from the breach end may not. This heats the barrel so a new patch will dry it and you are ready to clean with a modern solvent.
You can start with dunking a bronze into the water pan if you wish.

 

[plonker]

I think its vital to clean the same day. You can't guarantee that it wont rain, or get humid overnight.
I clean with modern water-based solvents anyway & they seem to have enough liquid to remove the salts as long as you clean thoroughly & oil thoroughly immediately after.
As for the hoppes No9 I've used it to clean corrosive & oil immeditely afterwards b ut I cant guarantee it will work for enyone else, but with 30+ yearsof using it even in places like Wales (If you can see the hills across the valley its going to rain. If you can't, its already raining)! I never had a rust problem. I have no idea what I'm doing differently from others .

 

[Leon]

I think its vital to clean the same day. You can't guarantee that it wont rain, or get humid overnight.
I clean with modern water-based solvents anyway & they seem to have enough liquid to remove the salts as long as you clean thoroughly & oil thoroughly immediately after.
As for the hoppes No9 I've used it to clean corrosive & oil immeditely afterwards b ut I cant guarantee it will work for enyone else, but with 30+ yearsof using it even in places like Wales (If you can see the hills across the valley its going to rain. If you can't, its already raining)! I never had a rust problem. I have no idea what I'm doing differently from others .

Assuming ambient high humidity in Wales, or anywhere else, the hygroscopic KaCl residue has begun to ionize almost immediately. So if you do anything immediately after shooting corrosive ammo, then you are ahead of the power curve.

Put another way, it's not so much what you do, but when you do it. If you pull Hoppe's patches - alot of them - immediately after firing, the mechanical removal of the KaCl will help. I designed my gadget for use on the range. Not only does a flush take care of the KaCl in a warm barrel, it also helps remove the powder fouling, so fewer patch pulls are needed to get a clean bore. The old method of "pumping" the bore with the muzzle in a pan of water does not work well at the range.

Regarding using some soapy rather than plain water: soap is a surfactant and reduces surface tension. In my experience, two squirts with my gadget completely flushed the bore free of residual KaCl as well as softened up powder fouling, making detailed bore cleaner a lot easier and faster.

 

[plonker]

You may have hit the nail on the head there. Immediate cleaning!
I always do a few patches at the range before I leave, take the rifle home with a "wet bore"
then finish cleaning at home.
Apart from anything else the "pumping from a bucket" won't work with many milsurps as they have wood to the muzzle!