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Diamond Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Update today 4/8/14
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...and-classification-7n6-545x39-ammunition.html


Direct copy of whats on the page.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Special Advisory

Public Affairs Division - Washington, DC







April 7, 2014

www.atf.gov


Test, Examination and Classification of 7N6 5.45x39 Ammunition



On March 5, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received a request from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency (CBP) to conduct a test, examination and classification of Russian-made 7N6 5.45x39 ammunition for purposes of determining whether it is considered “armor piercing ammunition” as defined by the Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended. Since 1986, the GCA has prohibited the importation of armor piercing ammunition unless it is destined for government use or testing. The imported ammunition about which CBP was inquiring was not destined for either excepted purpose.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added)

When ATF tested the 7N6 samples provided by CBP, they were found to contain a steel core. ATF’s analysis also concluded that the ammunition could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011. Accordingly, the ammunition is “armor piercing” under the section 921(a)(17)(B)(i) and is therefore not importable. ATF’s determination applies only to the Russian-made 7N6 ammunition analyzed, not to all 5.45x39 ammunition. Ammunition of that caliber using projectiles without a steel core would have to be independently examined to determine their importability
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I made a thread some time back about a company building PSL pistols and how some of our ammunition having steel core would and could be banned by the ATF at their leisure.
Some thought it was a joke, others laughed it off.

Well, 7n6 is now banned because, you guessed it! Pistols
7n6 is not a traditional steel core bullet, it has a tiny sliver of steel with other materials and was the only economical way to shoot an ak74. And dont I feel stupid selling off 90% of my supply just a month before this happened.

The ATF is on an agenda here, or why else would they care? Its a good round but the commercial stuff made is a close second in quality. None of this stuff has yet to be used in a crime to my knowledge, so it boils down to once again the ATF agenda(whatever it is).

Which leads me to Mosins, if a 5.45x39 pistol could be manufactured and cause the ATF to ban importation of 7n6, then we must allow in our minds the idea that our 54r is at risk.

I am not selling my ammo(I have foolishly sold most of mine off before this for rock bottom prices). But the first cash flow I get I will be stacking crates to the ceiling. I don't know how long it will take , could be another year. But its obvious the ATF has an agenda here and why we think we are protected because its "an old round" is no longer an excuse.
 

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Diamond Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
7n6 has more than a "sliver of steel" in there...it is a regular steel core projectile. Here is a drawing of the bullets construction. "B" is the steel core.
The ATF needs to hire you, you'd be helpful to em!
 

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I made a thread some time back about a company building PSL pistols and how some of our ammunition having steel core would and could be banned by the ATF at their leisure.
Some thought it was a joke, others laughed it off.

Well, 7n6 is now banned because, you guessed it! Pistols
7n6 is not a traditional steel core bullet, it has a tiny sliver of steel with other materials and was the only economical way to shoot an ak74. And dont I feel stupid selling off 90% of my supply just a month before this happened.

The ATF is on an agenda here, or why else would they care? Its a good round but the commercial stuff made is a close second in quality. None of this stuff has yet to be used in a crime to my knowledge, so it boils down to once again the ATF agenda(whatever it is).

Which leads me to Mosins, if a 5.45x39 pistol could be manufactured and cause the ATF to ban importation of 7n6, then we must allow in our minds the idea that our 54r is at risk.

I am not selling my ammo(I have foolishly sold most of mine off before this for rock bottom prices). But the first cash flow I get I will be stacking crates to the ceiling. I don't know how long it will take , could be another year. But its obvious the ATF has an agenda here and why we think we are protected because its "an old round" is no longer an excuse.
Sounds like you are implying ATF has a political agenda in this instance? If so, the moderators from on high, have stated there will be no political discussions allowed in this forum and are to be posted elsewhere.
 

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Re-post from other thread for those who didn't see it:

Yes, 5.45 steel core ammo being banned. I was advised by a particularly disagreeable forum member that it would not happen and that I was spewing horse crap when I said it could. It was in a thread started by forum member John Cushing way back on March 13, 2013 when he asked why there were no AK74 pistols.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ht=ak74+pistol

I replied:


Remember the opportunistic justification used to ban the import of steel core 7.62x39 ammo? Note that all the surplus military 5.45 ammo is steel core...I have no doubt that the Feds would declare the 5.45 to be an armor piercing round if chambered in a handgun. Even though the round was not originally designed as an AP and despite the fact that the difference between lead and mild steel may not be very great.
To which "Surly" posted:

Another horse crap myth. Read teh ATF's requisites for armor piercing ammo and you will have some more clarity. If that was the case, green tip 5.56 would make AR pistols contraband. Since the 5,45 is technically smaller than the 5.56, the ammo isn't classified as armor piercing. Do your homework before spreading misinformation.
In reply to Mr. Surly's wisdom I posted chapter and verse why the surplus 5.45 steel core ammunition could and likely would be banned from importation.

Surely merely lashed-out with this particularly nasty reply that took great pleasure in the constitutional rape that was underway in New York:

Your sniveling about '74 pistols doesn't make any difference. Go load your seven round mags and sip your 16oz soda while crying about being cheated to someone who cares.
I decided not to reply to this contemptuous nonsense because past experience has shown that Surly is simply not capable of rational argument and it always leads to the gutter.

I take absolutely no pleasure in being ultimately proven correct on this matter. It's not as if I formulated a unique analysis of the issue or was the only one stating the arguments I posted.

But I do take great pleasure in seeing Surly proven as a know-it-all spreader of horse crap.​


 

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Diamond Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Pga I suggest you call the ATF tech branch and ask them yourself so you dont end up looking like a deer in the headlights when the trucks headed right for you.

I got in contact with someone there today and they confirmed it. Does that mean much? not really.. You can call 3 different ATF Home Offices in your state and get 3 completely different answers.
But when the ATF agent who typed up that letter confirmed yesterday that its been banned.. All is lost.

I tell you what, I will admit you were right about $100 mosins being around now(well close, $110) if you will pull your head out of the ground and admit theres a ban ;)
 

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Pga I suggest you call the ATF tech branch and ask them yourself so you dont end up looking like a deer in the headlights when the trucks headed right for you.

I got in contact with someone there today and they confirmed it. Does that mean much? not really.. You can call 3 different ATF Home Offices in your state and get 3 completely different answers.
But when the ATF agent who typed up that letter confirmed yesterday that its been banned.. All is lost.

I tell you what, I will admit you were right about $100 mosins being around now if you will pull your head out of the ground and admit theres a ban ;)
Letter? what letter? I have only seen one 2-3 line email. Emails do not need to be approved by the management, official letterhead mass mailings to importers, etc do.

This is turning into "live news" coverage rumorville where no censorship is given to hearsay being passed off as fact and an AK-47 is used in every shooting even if it's a shotgun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Pga I know you like to argue.. But please pick up a phone and call the ATF. Its that simple pal.
 

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Pga I know you like to argue.. But please pick up a phone and call the ATF. Its that simple pal.
One can't argue facts, that is the point. Currently there are none. I had my experience with calling ATF before, the firearms branch. Called once, got an answer. Called few days later for clarification, got totally opposite answer. Now I wait for official letters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Who did you talk to?
Did you call a local branch or the actual ATF tech?

Calling your local atf for info on major plays like this is like me going to a 24 hour care center for brain surgery. They know nothing and its no wonder you would get different answers from different places.
 

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Who did you talk to?
Did you call a local branch or the actual ATF tech?

Calling your local atf for info on major plays like this is like me going to a 24 hour care center for brain surgery. They know nothing and its no wonder you would get different answers from different places.

it was the tech branch (Martinsburg, WV as I recall), I wouldn't even bother calling locals for any firearms info.
 

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And if you check gunbot, no surplus to be found, just new production. Interestingly, most suppliers are out of surplus 7.62 x 54 as well. Ordered a case from Wideners as I'd rather be safe than sorry.......
That is about right. Rumor starts about four weeks ago, everyone orders all of the x54R that they can afford then they wonder why there is none available. History repeats itself; just another SIW. Would someone start the rumor that .12 ga bird shot is being banned so I can cash in?
 

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And if you check gunbot, no surplus to be found, just new production. Interestingly, most suppliers are out of surplus 7.62 x 54 as well. Ordered a case from Wideners as I'd rather be safe than sorry.......
Apparently you haven't looked hard enough.

http://www.classicfirearms.com/ammunition/russian-5-45x39-ammunition

And I can find other Non vendors who have it as well. And apparently more is on the way. Ah yes the "we had to pay more to get it line" still works on suckers!
 
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