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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello,

I'm wondering what the internal ballistics of the 7.62x54R, in both 148gr and 180-185gr, look like.

According to a military website (the name escapes me right now), the 150gr bullet from a 7.62x51 will tumble in flesh, as will a FMJ .30-'06 round.

I can't find anything specific to the 7.62x54R.

Leaving aside any special rounds, such as those with clappers, what can I expect the bullet to do? I keep the think loaded for coyote, which are quite a problem around here. I'm debating whether to order some softpoint (should keep some on hand anyway). If I use the softpoint I'll ruin the pelt. if I use FMJ and break a shoulder, I'll anchor the animal and it'll die fairly quickly. If I miss bone, I have a wounded animal on my hands. That is, if this round drills straight through.

So, what's the wound profile look like?

Thanks,

Josh
 

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.30cal and simmilar FMJ bullets will tumble or turn base first in flesh but most will do so after about 13" of travel. This means a chest hit in a human or coyote will most often not produce the kind of wound an expanding bullet will.

I can not think of a bullet that is "ideal" for your situation....that is: Kill like Lightning but leave the pelt intact on the far side..... Unless you reload with one of the 110gr HP .308 bullets @ 3000fps and hope it blows up into pieces that do not exit.
 

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Hello,

I'm wondering what the internal ballistics of the 7.62x54R, in both 148gr and 180-185gr, look like.

According to a military website (the name escapes me right now), the 150gr bullet from a 7.62x51 will tumble in flesh, as will a FMJ .30-'06 round.

I can't find anything specific to the 7.62x54R.

Leaving aside any special rounds, such as those with clappers, what can I expect the bullet to do? I keep the think loaded for coyote, which are quite a problem around here. I'm debating whether to order some softpoint (should keep some on hand anyway). If I use the softpoint I'll ruin the pelt. if I use FMJ and break a shoulder, I'll anchor the animal and it'll die fairly quickly. If I miss bone, I have a wounded animal on my hands. That is, if this round drills straight through.

So, what's the wound profile look like?

Thanks,

Josh <><
Okay a couple of points here...internal balistics is what happens from the breach to the muzzle.. external ballistics is what happens between the muzzle and the target..... TERMINAL ballistics is what happens inside the target.....

that said....

Your question begs the answer.... accuracy comes first , is your rifle/ammo combination ( and skills for that matter) accurate enough to hit a vital spot reliably at your intended engagement ranges? How critical is the pelt your intended reason for shooting the coyote? 7.62x54 FMJ should be able to go clean thru 4 side by side coyotes at 100-200 yards, bone or no bone. Coyotes have small vital areas and thin bones so you have to work within the envelope of the animal. If you are serious about a clean kill and a clean pelt you need a rifle ammo combo that can reliably hit a 3" critical area, leave a small entry hole and not over penetrate clear thru the animal.. something like a scoped 22 mag( 50 yards or so) - 50 grain 223 (100-200 yards). If you just want a dead 'yote 7.62x54anybullet will kill. If you want a clean pelt , if money or trophy is prime, then you need specialized caliber/ammo.
7.62x54 handloaded with a light enough bullet at a slow enough speed to go less than all the way thru such a light target might have a bit of an arc to the trajectory.
Coyotes may be a pest, but the same ethics of a clean humain kill apply to pests... that pretty much means a non FMJ bullet designed to expand and shock kill inside a medium small thin skined target.. even 7.62x54 150 grain soft points are unlikely to expand reliably at less than 100 yards in such a light target when loaded to normal velocities... the heavier weight soft point bullets even less likely. Different brands and weights of soft point bullets are designed to reliably expand at certain impact velocities .. to slow or to fast and you get poor expansion results.
You probably want something like a 123 grain .311 remington soft point designed for the 7.62x39 velocities ( 2000-2400 fps). Handloaded into a 7.62x54 to the same velocites as the 7.62x39 , if it shoots accurately in your rifle, should be about right between 75 and 150 yards.
I load that bullet in .303 Brit , it has very light recoil at about 2000 fps loadings , expands well, but still tends to go clean thru unless it hits bone.. it is a very accurate and pleasant to shoot load in .303.. put then pelts ain't my thing.
Best bet 22 mag HP for money shots on yotes under 100 yards , past that, 50 grain 223 varmit loads.

As to tumbling.. humans are about 10-12" thick, yotes maybe 8"... ever notice how far into the ballistic gel block that tumbling starts ? 17"-24" for 30 caliber depending on what it hits. I wouldn't count on tumbling as a help in creating shock kill short of elk, boar, or bear.
 

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At short range, Czech silvertip tumbles.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/148gr Czech FMJ (silver painted tip).html

Normal hollowpoints in that caliber will leave a nasty wound in a coyote, I should think.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/7.62x54mm.html

jm

Seems strange he tests at 10 feet to gelatin block. Must think we Hunt / do combat in our dining Rooms!!! Maybe right for handgun testing....but for Hunting or Military Data I would wonder how bullets behave on impact at 100 to 200yard velocity. With Desert Warfare so popular...maybe 400 yards would be right. You have seen all the complaints about 5.56 mm M855 at those ranges, right?
 

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Try using the Hornady 123gr VMAX .310. It is meant for the 7.62x39, but it works equally well in the 54R. Load them on the warm side and you might not even get an exit wound, as the bullet will probably explode upon impact much like the .17HMR. I have loaded some up, but haven't tried them out on anything but paper as yet, very accurate little bullet.
 

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Pelts.........218 Bee. (Read that years ago in an article written by a pelt hunter.) I'm curious about the warm 123 gr .310 load!

Well Draybo.. if you would ever show up at Swan Creek and let me know you are coming I'd bring some and the No5 sheesh.... :)
How ya been?
 

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Seems strange he tests at 10 feet to gelatin block.

Not so strange. He tested it at my request, but he had limited facilities. He is usually doing handgun ballistics.

I agree that for rifle data, it would be more useful to know what the terminal ballistics would be like a 100-200 yard velocities. But at least one doesn't have to speculate now regarding the facts around what happens at 10 feet. Burglar coyotes beware! ;)

jm
 
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