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Imported from the Second Board, in three parts because of length limit (10,000 characters):

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kriggevaer
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 12:01:48 AM

I've not found any receiver pressure specs for the Danish K-J and have always assumed it probably wasn't much more than 45,000. I've only one Dansk K-J and I don't want to experiment with it However, I've been told by some of our Swedish colleagues that the Norma 8x58R commercial loading was very hot, exceeding .30-06 velocities. I would guess there more than few Norma rounds fired through rolling blocks and K-J rifles and haven't heard any horror stories. But, over the winter I am definitely going to be playing with the 6.5x58R concept. Of course it would be easier and cheaper to do a 6.5x53R and have plenty of readily available brass, but then that would take some of the fun out of it. And anyway, I think the 8x58R case is a better design anyway. Probably couldn't talk Norma into producing brass again :D
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snowhunter
Posted - 01/08/2006 : 10:46:54 PM

Having owned a couple of 8X58R Danish Krag, and currently owning a 1892 vintage, mint condition, sporterized version with Lyman 57 reciver sight, I also do enjoy reloading for this, over a century old Danish shooter.

Over the years I have used various 8X58R brass, including reloaded original, berdan primed Danish brass from 1910-42, Norma and Bertram brass that badly need to be annealed before use, as well as succcesfully, used the the easy available Russian 7.62X54R, by necking it up to accept the 8mm bullets. This capacious Russian rimmed cartrigde fire forms very well indside the Danish Krag, with no visible bad side effects, like bulging at the base that happens when I fire formed, shortened, 30-06 brass in a sligthly larger diameter, 6.5X55 chamber.

The brass Russian 7,62X54R cartridge case is 2.1" long versus the 2.3" lenght for the 8X58R Danish Krag cartrigde case, and the 0.2" difference betwen those two rimmed cartriges, appears to have no ill effect on accuracy or shooting safety.

When reloading the 8X58R Danish Krag, my favorite is a loadind data from Cartridges of the World, of 200 grain bullet in front of 54.5 grains of IMR 4895 that produces up to 2772 fps and 3412 foot pounds muzzle energy!

Also, I have fired a number of, custom-made, 8X58R Danish cartidges, formed from the venerable 45-70 cases, and accuracy was exellent. However, I was'nt able to reload these boxer primed cases since my RCBS resizing die was to large for the thinner 45-70 brass. I contacted RCBS, and they told me to send the resizing die back to them, and they would fix that minor problem.

In regards to aquire 8X58R Danish Krag cartridges from Greenland, I have been there and done that many years ago, and Greenland is currently, and most likely to permanently remain completely dried up for Norma and old Danish military, 8X58R cartidges, (and sorry kriggevaer, my limited stock of Norma 8X58R Danish Krag is not for sale either). The few surviving, model 89 Danish Krag in Greenland, has been retired to become admired wall hangers.

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snowhunter
Posted - 01/08/2006 : 11:32:12 PM

In regards to the 6.5X58R Danish Krag, I would like to ad my two cents worth by quoting "Cartriges of the World".

"Historical notes: A Danish target cartridge developed in 1933 by necking down the 8mm Model 89 military round. It is used in single shot match rifles based on the Krag-Jorgensen action. Its use if confined entirely to Denmark."

Without doubt, the RCBS have this rare die in stock, and it should be relatively easy to form 6.5X58R cases from either 8X58R, 45-70 and the 7.62X54 Russian brass.

One loading data is also provided which duplicate the original factory load with a 140 grain bullet:

140 grain bullet, loaded with 46 grain of IMR 4350, with a muzzle velocity of 2500 fps.

One might as well, with much lesser efforts, keep shooting the equal or better velocity, 6.5X55 ?

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kriggevaer
Posted - 01/08/2006 : 11:48:17 PM

Hi Snowhunter,
Thanks for the info, very interesting. Right now I'm using Betram brass for my 8x58r and as you noted, annealing is absolutely necessary with Bertram. If I remember correctly the 180gr Norma factory load chrono'ed close to 2900 fps, so the old Danish cartridge is no granny round. And, yes it is true it would be far easier to deal with the 6.5x55, but then life wouldn't be so interesting

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arado
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 07:48:43 AM

Having just acquired a Danish Krag carbine(Not sure of pedigree, but very well done)I need ammunition. So, it's acceptable to use Russian long cases(54r) or 45-70 with standard .323 Mauser bullets and fireform? Recommended loads? Thanks for input. Gary

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snowhunter
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 10:04:37 AM

arado, it's a very simple convertion to create 8X58R from 45-70 and 7.52X54R by forming these two cartridges through the full lenght 8X58R resizer.

You might encounter problems with some thin wall 45-70 cases that might not have enough brass to form a tight fit for the 8mm bullet, and if that is the case, please contact RCBS and get a tighter full lenght die for the 8X58R.

However, when forming the thicker wall 7.62X54R brass cases in the 8X58R full lenght resizer, I never encountered any such problems as a I did when resizng the 45-70 cases. Any 8mm or .323 bullet will safely, shoot throught the 8X58R bore.

Reloading data for the 8X58R, from "Cartridges of the World":

159 grain bullet, IMR 3031, 52,4 grains, 2870 fps, 2920 fp.
196 grain bullet, IMR 4895, 54 grains, 2630 fps, 3020 fp.
198 grain bullet, INR 4895, 54.5 grains, 2740 fps, 3310 fp.

Historical notes: Danish military cartridge adopted in 1889 for the M89 Krag-Jorgensen bolt action rifle.The original loading was the 237 grain round nosed bullet, but in 1908 it was changed to a 196 grain spitzer bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps. This is a popular sporting and target cartridge in the Scandinavian countries. Rifles based on the Remingtong rolling block action chambered for this round are quite common in Scandinavian countries.

kriggevaer, when the weather gets better, I will crono some fmj Norma 8X58R, and post them in these fine pages.

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arado
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 1:51:13 PM

Thank you, I have a number of Yugo brass case Russian long(54r). I have the RCBS dies for the Danish..acquired with the rifle NIB. I'll use the 4895. Any recommendations for a fire form load? Regards, Gary

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snowhunter
Posted - 01/09/2006 : 11:05:12 PM

"The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions" by John J. Donnelly, suggest 10-15 grains of Bullseye powder and compressed cornmeal for the rest of the cartridge case, sealed with wood glue and then fire formed, in a special fire forming die.

I use a more direct fire forming, by reducing the above handloads with bullets, with maximum 10%, and fire form them in the chamber of the new caliber.

I am sure that you can find other methods of fire forming cartridges in these fine page ?

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jp
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 12:13:34 PM

FWIW, I have been using Buffalo Arms cases formed from 45-70 brass; these have been stretched in forming to the correct length and work well for me.
My 18889/24 carbine has a beautiful sharp 0.325 bore and does very well with Sierra 175 grain .323 spitzers. I get good groups with IMR4064, IMR4831, and IMR4350. Take your pick, this cartridge seems very tolerant. My favorite load is 50.0/4350 with the 175 spitzer flat base, sub-2moa at 100 yards. Newer eyes would help a lot....
I would love to have a 6.5 Krag but I am balking at the price of a custom chambering reamer. My first choice would be to use an eighty niner action if I could find one, or perhaps a P13 Enfield if the bolt face will open up enough. That should be strong enough to explore the full potential of this caliber!

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snowhunter
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 02:41:57 AM

Also, I was wondering if it would it be necessary to use an 6.5 mm, inside reamer for the necked down 8X58R cases, before reloading them ?
 
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