[Ed Z.]

I have two commercial Webley Mk IV Service revolvers. Today I noticed that the earlier of the two, serial number 84883, is stamped 445/476. The later revolver, serial number 129392, is stamped 450/455. Does anyone know in what year the caliber change took place?

Thanks,

Ed

 

[[email protected]]

The commercial MK IVs were available in 450/455 and 455/476 throughout their whole run, Ed.

 

[DocAV]

Strange Calibre markings on Webleys

The .445,450..455 and .476 Chambers were all essentially the same. The cartridges differed in Construction, as to case length, bullet design (.476 was a "heeled" design). Ammunition could be used interchangeably to a greater or lesser degree...the case body and rim sizes were virtually the same. IE, one could safely use .450 Adams or Colt cartridges in a .455 or .476 marked gun, and sometimes vice versa. The differences in nomenclature was from the cartridge design, not really the gun chambering. The calibres mentioned were all cartridges used in Britain by Army and Police in the period 1870-1890s, finishing with the .455. Cases for all of them can be made by rim thinning and case trimming the standby US .45 Colt revolver case...it just depends on the load ( BP or Smokeless, lead or jacketed Bullet, Full diameter or Heeled).
There are about half a dozen case lengths to contend with, from the .445 Webley, thru .450 Boxer, .450 Adams, .450 Colt or Eley,.455 Marks 1 & II, and the Enfield .476 Army. There are also some Kynoch made .455 "Manstopper" ( Wadcutters) also.

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.

 

[Ed Z.]

The commercial MK IVs were available in 450/455 and 455/476 throughout their whole run, Ed.

So if a person purchased a Mk IV in 1900 he would pick either 450/455 or 455/476? Did that continue with the Mk V?

 

[[email protected]]

Doc,
While all 4 cartridges will interchange in a revolver chambered for 455/476, that is sometimes not true when it comes to those chambered for 450/455.

 

[GrantRCanada]

Yes .... .450/.455 chambers are shorter and will not accept the longer .476 and .455 MkI cartridges .....

 

[PJGP]

Yes .... .450/.455 chambers are shorter and will not accept the longer .476 and .455 MkI cartridges .....

I have finally managed to get around to checking the revolvers in my collection. Contary to what Grant said, all the 455 revolvers will take a Mark I round. Most 455 guns will not take a 476, although in many cases the 476 rim nearly touches the back of the cylinder.

However, a civilian 6" barrel Mark I 450/455 takes a 476 as does a 1915 Mark VI (service issue 455). A 455 New Model Army Express will take a 476, but a 455 RIC '83 won't.

It seems to me that with Webleys it is mainly a matter of manufacturing tolerances as to whether a 455 gun takes a 476. A Colt New Service 455 only allows a 476 half way in, whereas a S&W Mk II Hand Ejector is pretty much the same as a Webley.

Peter

 

[[email protected]]

Webley was very inconsistent when it came to chambering. Those No 5 New Model Army Expresses sold by Blakemore for use in Africa were only marked ".450". The great majority, but not all, will chamber all of the various .45 cartridges Webley offered in that model including the .45 Colt. A few will only chamber the .450.

 

[45Auto]

Webley was very inconsistent when it came to chambering. Those No 5 New Model Army Expresses sold by Blakemore for use in Africa were only marked ".450". The great majority, but not all, will chamber all of the various .45 cartridges Webley offered in that model including the .45 Colt. A few will only chamber the .450.

Although I have not checked to be sure, I have often suspected that Webley revolvers which would accept .45 Colt had been subsequently reamed by a gunsmith. But it would appear that Webley made at least some of their revolvers with long chambers?

 

[[email protected]]

The great majority of New Model No. 5 Army Expresses are marked and chambered for the "45L" as in .45 Colt cartridge. There were a few RIC No. 1 New Models chambered for it as well.