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I have an opened box of .41 Swiss rimfire cartridges I discovered in the bottom of a box of miscellaneous 'stuff' I bought in an estate sale. I have an acquaintance who has a Vetterli rifle in this caliber. I haven't decided whether to sell them or not, the last time I got rid of some old ammo ( copper cased .32 rimfire, U headstamp) I kicked myself for it later. I'm enjoying just looking at these on a shelf above my loading bench. If he starts bidding for them, though, I'd like an idea of what they might be worth. Looks like they sold for $8.50 when they were new.

Thanks,

Steve
 

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First time I've heard of that brand! I think I paid $3.50 or so for a single round of UMC .41. Not sure if it was a good price or not (probably not) but wanted a representative cartridge for my collection and it was the only one at the show I had attended.
Neat box!
 

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On the website ammo-one.com they want $12.50 a round, yours are an uncommon round so probably worth more,,,,,Mariko
 

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I'm no expert on much of anything. I think the Italian made stuff would be more common than a US made round. I have several boxes of the Italian stuff and don't ever recall seeing the US made stuff in this caliber for sale. The main reason I have it, is because the brightly colored box kind of "jumps out at you" when you are cruising the aisles at a gun show. The rifles were heavily imported in the 50s. I assume Winfield worked a deal with the Italian firm to import the ammo. Usually when I see it at a show (in the Southeast) they seem to ask 60 - 75 a box for it. I haven't seen any in a while, however. It may be highter now. Do have one dealer bugging me to buy mine, but we have never got around to price.

The rifles are usually in pretty good shape when you see one, but they are not near as common as they used to be. I always assumed the high price of the ammo was fueled by the rifle owners wanting to get a box to go with their gun. The rifle always looked kind of cumbersome to me and I never really had any desire to keep one.

SCWood
 

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Thanks, SCWood. That is what I needed to know. I'll probably just hang on to this box just as a curiosity. Since it's non corrosively primed and loaded with smokeless powder, I had guessed it was of relatively late manufacture in this caliber's lifespan.

Steve
 

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Leon Beaux 41 Vetterli Rimfire.

Remington stopped making 41 Swiss rimfire in 1940-41, along with a lot of other rimfires bigger than .22.
Leon Beaux was an ammo maker in Milan (outskirts) which had made shotshells since the 1800s, and also made Military 6,5mm Carcano ammo in the 1930s and 40s. After WW II, they returned to making Shotshells, Pistol ammo, .30 M1 carbine Ammo for the Italian Government, and also some "Special orders" such as 41 Rimfire for the US Milsurp company named on the packet. The Packet probably dates from the mid 1950s, as LBC closed down in the late 1960s, and its 30 US Carb. machinery was sold to Squires Bingham (now Armscorp of the Philippines) who converted it to making .223 ammo ( 5,56mm).

The market for .41Swiss RF was due to Bannerman who back before WW I, and in the 1920s, had sold thousands of M69 and M71 Vetterli Rifles, as is, or converted to two-shot Farm Guns, by sporterising them and removing the magazine tube...the Winchester type elevator (M66) block held one round, the chamber the other. Remington made both Ball and Shot loads for these "Farm Guns"...some of them even made it to Australia (I have one, with the stock cut back, and no Mag tube, but the barrel is full length and still rifled.)

The European market for .41 Swiss was for Target shooters, in both Switzerland and Northern Italy; so even though the Swiss still made the RF ammo well into the 60s, the italian Company also had a good market following...especially in Italy, where centerfire Military calibres were prohibited up till the 1980s. Rimfire military were classed as Antique, in the same realm as Cap and Ball, and thus "free" to own, and use. In Switzerland, it was a Citizens Duty to keep a piece at home, both as a reservist and later, as a Club shooter.

The original box, with the original Label and full of correct cartridges, would be a rather valuable collector's item, even if opened.
The cartridges, individually, would be of lesser value, given that there is nothing on them to link them to the specific order for US sales.

Nice Find.
Regards,
Doc AV
 

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Doc, is Leon Beaux still producing cartridges? Awhile back on a diffrent Swiss rifles forum, there was talk of getting one of the Swiss companies to produce .41 rimfire, only to find out that the factory threw out all the equipment for production in the 80's. Perhaps LB can still produce them?
 

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I have a 20 shot box of copper cased UMC .41 Swiss ammo - and some additional loose rounds with the "U" trade mark. I was intending to find out what the stuff is worth someday.

Best regards,
Greg
 

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LBC Milan Closed

Leon Beaux closed down and was Liquidated sometime in the 1970-80s.

The factory property is being Re-developed into "Socially-reponsible Public Housing"
(Italian Double-speak for some City Burocrats making a lot of money from equally corrupt Building developers)
Some of the LBC machinery went to the Philippines as I previously mentioned, and the rest was sold locally or scrapped.

So, CBC Brazil is the last hope for making any "NON .22" Type rimfire (they made the .32RF Remington Batch in the 1960s-70s).

Of course, the other method is the turned brass cases using an off-set .22 RF Blank as an igniter...only you have to physically make sure the .22 Insert lines up with the firing Pin...works on Rimfiresingleshots such as Rolling Blocks and Trapdoors such as the Wanzl, but not ver possible with a Bolt action.

As mentioned, the Swiss factory at Thun cleaned out the .41 RF machinery (some of it from the 1860s) when they went over to 5,56 manufacture...they needed the space.

The principles of making a Rimfire case are well described in Frost " Ammunition Manufacture" (NRA Publications).

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
 

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I have an opened box of .41 swiss R.F. ( 17 rds left) made by Leon Breaux-Milano.The box is in good condition,the ammo is fair. it has corrosion on the lead and the paper is falling off,but the brass is clean,no corrosion.on the top and bottom of the box it says Winfield Arms Corporation (partially blacked out,but readable).I don't know the value of them but they are for sale if anyone is interested.

Thanks
Chuck
 
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