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Any one know if the .41 Swiss RF is still being made?
.41 Swiss RF
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Sadly, no. I have a full box of 41 rimfire that was made by Remington UMC prior to WW2. I believe that this was the last time this cartridge was produced.
Unless you want to plink with $5 plus a round ammo the only other option is to convert the rifle to center fire. Then you can use 348 Winchester brass and 44 magnum cast bullets to make up the rounds. About a year ago Lee made up a special run of reloading dies for the center fire version of this cartridge. I also believe you can use 44 mag. dies to produce the case and seat the bullets.
I just went through this process on a Vetterli rifle I have had for 20 years. I decided that I would rather have a shootable rifle than one which was still original.
Stray
Unless you want to plink with $5 plus a round ammo the only other option is to convert the rifle to center fire. Then you can use 348 Winchester brass and 44 magnum cast bullets to make up the rounds. About a year ago Lee made up a special run of reloading dies for the center fire version of this cartridge. I also believe you can use 44 mag. dies to produce the case and seat the bullets.
I just went through this process on a Vetterli rifle I have had for 20 years. I decided that I would rather have a shootable rifle than one which was still original.
Stray
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1,667 Posts
Well...
..actually the original poster asked about commercially manufactured and readily available .41 rimfire ammunition for the Vetterli rifles and you replied by telling him about the 7.5 X 53.5 centerfire ammunition for the early Swiss straight pulls.
I only wanted to show you that similar ammunition has been made more recently less than 100 years ago, it is no longer in production now but has been in use quite long with the M97 cadet rifles.
Writing to "CaTW" is of little use I guess as they probably do not even distinguish between GP1890, GP1890/03, GP1890/23 and the cadet cartridges, all these fit the older Swiss straight pulls and the M93 cavalry carbine.
GP1890 was improved with a new type of (non-corroding) primer in 1903 (GP1890/03), when production ended is not sure but there are cases around stamped up to 1911.
As in the early twenties the GP1890 became scarce the Solothurn ammo factory produced a number of lots in 1923 and '24, this so called GP1890/23 differed from the older cartridges as the bullets were no longer paper patched but NiCu plated like GP11 are.
The cadet cartridges had a 20% lesser charge.
Commercially available no not really but still sold in Swiss gunshops as collectors ammunition.
Guisan.
..actually the original poster asked about commercially manufactured and readily available .41 rimfire ammunition for the Vetterli rifles and you replied by telling him about the 7.5 X 53.5 centerfire ammunition for the early Swiss straight pulls.
I only wanted to show you that similar ammunition has been made more recently less than 100 years ago, it is no longer in production now but has been in use quite long with the M97 cadet rifles.
Writing to "CaTW" is of little use I guess as they probably do not even distinguish between GP1890, GP1890/03, GP1890/23 and the cadet cartridges, all these fit the older Swiss straight pulls and the M93 cavalry carbine.
GP1890 was improved with a new type of (non-corroding) primer in 1903 (GP1890/03), when production ended is not sure but there are cases around stamped up to 1911.
As in the early twenties the GP1890 became scarce the Solothurn ammo factory produced a number of lots in 1923 and '24, this so called GP1890/23 differed from the older cartridges as the bullets were no longer paper patched but NiCu plated like GP11 are.
The cadet cartridges had a 20% lesser charge.
Commercially available no not really but still sold in Swiss gunshops as collectors ammunition.
Guisan.
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221 Posts
"41 Swiss" was produced commercially in the US by Winchester and Remington/UMC as late as 1930, and possibly later, to feed the glut of "sporterized" Vetterlis that were imported and marketed by Sears, Roebuck & Co, among others. Not unlike the "Alpine Sporters" of the 1960's.
Resp'y,
Bob S.
Resp'y,
Bob S.
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2,432 Posts
Stray,
I am planning on trying to reload for a 41 Swiss that I have. As you have done this do you mind if I pick your brain?
What bullet did you use?
Did you use 44 mag. dies to form the brass?
Did you use 44 mag. dies to reload it?
What load did you use?
I own two Vetterli rifles and one of them was converted to center fire when I got it. It is in real good shape and the bore looks decent. I would dearly love to take her out and put some lead down range with her. If anyone has any good info on loading the 10.4 X 38R Swiss I would really appreciate hearing from you.
Jerry
I am planning on trying to reload for a 41 Swiss that I have. As you have done this do you mind if I pick your brain?
What bullet did you use?
Did you use 44 mag. dies to form the brass?
Did you use 44 mag. dies to reload it?
What load did you use?
I own two Vetterli rifles and one of them was converted to center fire when I got it. It is in real good shape and the bore looks decent. I would dearly love to take her out and put some lead down range with her. If anyone has any good info on loading the 10.4 X 38R Swiss I would really appreciate hearing from you.
Jerry
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14,762 Posts
Wouldn't bother using .44mag dies as Vetterli dies are commercialy available.
RCBS even makes a bullet mould (10.4x47R)
As stated, reformed .348 win brass is used.
All of the components can be obtained from
www.buffaloarms.com (You should get their catalog as it is a treasure trove of components for this old stuff)
Note when loading, that overall cartridge length is critical.
Since it's a BP rifle, powder charge is irrelevant, (just fill the case so the bullet slightly compresses the charge.)
I also have two Vetterli's that I converted to centre fire. one standard rifle and one Stutzen.
go to www.swissrifles.com/vetterli for lots of information.
RCBS even makes a bullet mould (10.4x47R)
As stated, reformed .348 win brass is used.
All of the components can be obtained from
www.buffaloarms.com (You should get their catalog as it is a treasure trove of components for this old stuff)
Note when loading, that overall cartridge length is critical.
Since it's a BP rifle, powder charge is irrelevant, (just fill the case so the bullet slightly compresses the charge.)
I also have two Vetterli's that I converted to centre fire. one standard rifle and one Stutzen.
go to www.swissrifles.com/vetterli for lots of information.
Joined
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14,762 Posts
Hey, Tac, It took the gubmint a long time to put 5.5 velo-dog on the obsolete list. I guess some official found a box of ammo in an antique shop in Lower Piddle ( real place)
Now .455 webley is also on the obsolete list, but It's commercialy available here and in that soon to be muslim continent across the channel. Hope I haven't leaked this to one of the Labour Party spies. LOL.
H.M. customs threatened to prosecute a friend of mine several years ago for exporting military ammuniton without a licence. ie:577-450 and 11mm Mauser unprimed brass.
Now .455 webley is also on the obsolete list, but It's commercialy available here and in that soon to be muslim continent across the channel. Hope I haven't leaked this to one of the Labour Party spies. LOL.
H.M. customs threatened to prosecute a friend of mine several years ago for exporting military ammuniton without a licence. ie:577-450 and 11mm Mauser unprimed brass.
RangerZ ????
#1. I used a 250 grain SWC RCBS 44 bullet as cast. Bullet dia. approx. .433/4.
I believe Lee makes a 300 grain .430 dia. bullet mold that may be good for this rifle. My rifles groove dia. was .432.
#2&3. I didn't use 44 mag. reloading dies. I had read older threads on this subject which claimed to have successfully done this. Midway had Lee die sets for the 41 Swiss and I had bought a set of these. It looks like the 44 mag dies would work ok if you already have them.
#4. I used a case full to the neck of Clear Shot black powder substitute topped with a card spacer between the powder and the bullet. Bullet was seated down to powder so as to not leave any air gap.
Results were a 15 shot group of 5-6 inches about 18 inches high at 100 yards. I need to engineer some sort of a taller slip on front sight. I don't know if a 300 grain bullet would help this or not.
These things are a hoot to fire. I get interest from other shooters when they see the cloud of white smoke emitting from this strange looking rifle. There is no sharp recoil, just a push.
Stray
#1. I used a 250 grain SWC RCBS 44 bullet as cast. Bullet dia. approx. .433/4.
I believe Lee makes a 300 grain .430 dia. bullet mold that may be good for this rifle. My rifles groove dia. was .432.
#2&3. I didn't use 44 mag. reloading dies. I had read older threads on this subject which claimed to have successfully done this. Midway had Lee die sets for the 41 Swiss and I had bought a set of these. It looks like the 44 mag dies would work ok if you already have them.
#4. I used a case full to the neck of Clear Shot black powder substitute topped with a card spacer between the powder and the bullet. Bullet was seated down to powder so as to not leave any air gap.
Results were a 15 shot group of 5-6 inches about 18 inches high at 100 yards. I need to engineer some sort of a taller slip on front sight. I don't know if a 300 grain bullet would help this or not.
These things are a hoot to fire. I get interest from other shooters when they see the cloud of white smoke emitting from this strange looking rifle. There is no sharp recoil, just a push.
Stray
Vetterli cases
I use an old RCBS 44 mag sizing die and just neck size my refored 348 WIN cases.
I thought I read somewhere of someone buying the Lee dies and saying it worked their brass too much. Neck sizing has been working fine for me.
I also use the Lee 310 grain .430 dia. gas checked lead bullet. The flat meplate on the bullet presented a small problem when loading at first, but I opened up the loading port slightly near the beginning of the tubular magazine and they load easily now without binding in the loading port.............Mike
I use an old RCBS 44 mag sizing die and just neck size my refored 348 WIN cases.
I thought I read somewhere of someone buying the Lee dies and saying it worked their brass too much. Neck sizing has been working fine for me.
I also use the Lee 310 grain .430 dia. gas checked lead bullet. The flat meplate on the bullet presented a small problem when loading at first, but I opened up the loading port slightly near the beginning of the tubular magazine and they load easily now without binding in the loading port.............Mike
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