[david cunningham]

who keeps the records of known rifles?
how many known of each arsenal?

 

[t94nambu]

should be a table in the type 38 book. not sure how many are out there, but there seems to be far more 38 CC rifles than there are 99 CC rifles for some reason.

 

[shahps50]

With all the CC metal stamps that are available on web sites such as e-bay it is difficult to assess what is an accurate CC rifle. To me if it is not in the T-38 book by now it should be considered suspect.

 

[david cunningham]

it is not that hard to tell.
i found out when i dissembled mine lots of proofs that seem different than you find on t38's.
also a difference in what parts are numbered.
also difference inn rear sight.
add that to the serial no range ( kokura 1 to app. 1500 and nagoya 1 to app 2600) no series mark

With all the CC metal stamps that are available on web sites such as e-bay it is difficult to assess what is an accurate CC rifle. To me if it is not in the T-38 book by now it should be considered suspect.

 

[t94nambu]

extremely tough to fake a CC rifle given the serial number ranges and exclusive proof markings found on these rifles. I have never seen any "CC" stamps for sale but would love to see an auction listing for them if you can provide them.

 

[ncsammy]

Here are a few pic's of my CC Type 38, sn 1675. The concentric circles are original to the the receiver (they were not stamped over a ground mum).

 

[shahps50]

Check through metal stamps on e-bay. There are two concentric circles with center dot which can be ground down; in addition the company will make them in any diameter size you like. Kind of like that anchor stamp I posted some time ago that seemed to appear on some WW1 two piece Japanese muzzle caps from Michigan that were supposed to have originated from Russia. They were identical to the e-bay anchor and he was asking quite a lot for them

 

[hearsecrazy]

I just purchased a type 38 Long rifle serial # 142220 it is a Kokoura manufactured rifle followed by a small rectangle and a cross in the middle of the mark. The bolt doesn't match #2795 or 795 kind hard to read and there are NO numbers on the safety firing pin etc.. The bayonet lug has =343 the upper line slightly shorter than the lower. The real puzzler is the intact mum with 3 interlocking rings stamped over it (kinda like the Olympic emblem)? I hope to get you some pix but I can't get used to this new camera. There are some Kanji on the stock and Don V. said that it was a school rifle. What do you all think? The bore is clean and I'm sure it will fire. I will send photos soon as I can get some clear ones. THANKS! Mike

 

[t94nambu]

Mike, text book example of a school rifle.

 

[shahps50]

 

[t94nambu]

thats not a CC rifle. that is a type 30 with a canceled mum

 

[hearsecrazy]

THANKS FOR THE INFO! I didn't have one of these, guess I do now! I do LIKE the text book example of a school rifle. Mike

 

[arisakadogs]

I have this Nagoya CC T-38

 

[shahps50]

With regards to the T-30 above, Allan & Macy's book on the T-38 page 54 says

"...concentric circles used to cancel a Mum in addition to indicating that the weapon has been assigned to this special purpose."

Does anyone know what "this special purpose" actually means?

What is the difference between:

i) a scrubbed Mum with CC

ii) CC on a receiver that was never stamped with a Mun.

iii) CC over a visibly stamped Mum.

 

[Francis C. Allan]

My theory is school assignments.

None reported since the book was published!

Frank

 

[damiencain]

Heres one you might find interesting

My theory is school assignments.

None reported since the book was published!

Frank

Just got it. Excellent shape. Non matching dust cover. Non matching safety. No school designation but has a rack number on the butt. Matched by both assembly number (2) and partial serial number (serial 1478). Most parts have 47 (firing pin, bolt, extractor), floor plate has 478. Font is the same across. the 8 in the serial looks a bit odd, like an afterthought as it is light. Assembly number of 2 found on barrel, receiver, and front inside trigger guard. Tangs not numbered. Some small Tokyo arsenal stamps fond here and there. Not a scrub and stamp receiver but a straight CC stamp. No numbers inside forend or hand guard. No cartouche on stock. Came with cleaning rod. Will be filling out a data sheet this weekend.

 

[damiencain]

With regards to the T-30 above, Allan & Macy's book on the T-38 page 54 says

"...concentric circles used to cancel a Mum in addition to indicating that the weapon has been assigned to this special purpose."

Does anyone know what "this special purpose" actually means?

What is the difference between:

i) a scrubbed Mum with CC

ii) CC on a receiver that was never stamped with a Mun.

iii) CC over a visibly stamped Mum.

1. the mum is ground off mostly, then a concentric circle (one circle inside another circle) is stamped over it.

2. Concentric circle on a receiver with no mum ever being stamped (take a look at my pics in the reply above)

3. Concentric circle over a stamped mum. I have never seen this but I am no expert. I think based on previous posts the ring of "0s" overtsamped on a mum to cancel it may be interpreted as a concentric circle. But I dont think this is the case. A canceled mum looks way difference from a concentric circle stamp.

But I could be wrong...

 

[damiencain]

Other random late night thoughts

I also have a kokura last ditch type 99 concentric circle and noticing for the most part they are in excellent shape. The other ones I have seen posted look to have very nice blue and stocks with little to no damage. Just my observation. .my type 38 is like 75% with dust cover wear and some bluing loss around the bayonet lug and muzzle, and wear and patina on the butt plate and rear sling swivel. But the barrel is gorgeous deep matte blue. Almost like they were cared for or saw little use..