[painterjohn]

I picked up the Siamese thinking it was Serbian..few pics and poor ones at that..I think it is the correct scabbard as well..this is a new one on me and if you folks can add a little about what rifle it was meant for It would be much appreciated.

Next was a DOT for around $40shipped..the scabbard is well dented and the tip is blunted..its a tiny blunt and I'm sure I could fix it just as I'm sure I wont ; )..the frog was described a bit generously as an interesting variant LOL..does look to show some honest use but a variant..well ; )..still pretty pleased it even has an itty bitty eagle proof..I think its 35 or 55 under the bird..again some help with that would also be welcome.

Last is my favorite as I love my Turkish oddballs..Again I am asking for some help..The Soemmerda marking is apparently not very common..I did learn that it was made at Soemmerda Germany ..I know also they made bayonets for WWI..but..I cannot find any in Keislings or Janzens or any on google showing this type of blade???..I cant even be sure if this blade was cutdown..its fuller does go near the point but its almost seems to me to resemble a Spanish bayonet..Also the scales and handle has a distinct shape like a 71/84 but the Turks did recycle those sometimes so again, I just dont know if its correct for the blade..The pommel appears to be a recycled 1890 or 1887

Anyhow if someone has an unmolested example I sure would love to see what this blade once was..Thank you folks!

 

[type96]

John, at $40.00 you got a hell of a deal for the dot bayonet. If you look at the flat spline of the blade you can see the date, 42 or 43. the number you see under the eagle is 63. You may have dot under the frog on the scabbard also. Some say these were issued with the g24t rifle, but probably with other k98k as well.

 

[old-smithy]

Think the blade is from a 71/84 they had a version with the fuller that ran nearly out the end, if so it is an uncommon German so an even less common Turk

 

[geladen]

Great find. The Siamese bayonet is the same as a Mauser 1904/1907 bayonet and the same as a M1904 Mauser Vergueiro bayonet. It goes with the Japanese made M1903 Siamese Mauser rifle. See Mausers, Only Mausers post #38.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?144316-Mausers-Only-Mausers

It must have been a "standard" Mauser bayonet type around 1903-1904. The hilt is shorter from crossguard to tip of pommel than the real "standard" Sg84/98III bayonet.

 

[geladen]

Gotta love those Turks. They had a giant grinder to make those bayonets. They threw all different kinds of bayonets in a hopper on the top, turned a big crank to the tune of horrible grinding noises, and on a conveyor belt coming out of the side were all the different kinds of "standard" Turk bayonets.

 

[painterjohn]

John, at $40.00 you got a hell of a deal for the dot bayonet. If you look at the flat spline of the blade you can see the date, 42 or 43. the number you see under the eagle is 63. You may have dot under the frog on the scabbard also. Some say these were issued with the g24t rifle, but probably with other k98k as well.

Sure enough a better picture does show the 63..well a little better pic : )

..there was a DOT 43 under the frog as well

The pic of the top of spine diddnt turn out and I cant find my glass(not within reach..Kiiiids!) but to the naked eye I dont see anything on the spine of the blade..it is a bit grungy over the grips and I'll check there again after a terry cloth "grunge rub"..here the bottom of grips pic

Thank you for your help type96 : )

 

[painterjohn]

Think the blade is from a 71/84 they had a version with the fuller that ran nearly out the end, if so it is an uncommon German so an even less common Turk

Thank you Carl,...the grip does have the 71/84 wavy type shape so that part is also original...They just stuck an export pattern crossguard and an old 1890/1887 pommel on it (I cant tell the diff between the 2 by eye..do you have a visual que or measurement I could use?)

The Soemmerda stamp is just crisp and clear..I feel very lucky as most often the ricasso markings are Worn, scrubbed or just plane damaged during the re-work..

Here is what I think is the inspector?? stamp "L" and the date "00" for 1900?? (not 100% sure as the first digit looks "plumper" than the second)

A wonderful Turk bay.. Unique!!..just like all the others ; )..

Thanks again for your insight and if you can point me to an image of what this bay looked like in its original form that would be very welcome..my google-fu appears to be very weak this time

 

[painterjohn]

Great find. The Siamese bayonet is the same as a Mauser 1904/1907 bayonet and the same as a M1904 Mauser Vergueiro bayonet. It goes with the Japanese made M1903 Siamese Mauser rifle. See Mausers, Only Mausers post #38.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?144316-Mausers-Only-Mausers

It must have been a "standard" Mauser bayonet type around 1903-1904. The hilt is shorter from crossguard to tip of pommel than the real "standard" Sg84/98III bayonet.

Hi Geladen, Thank you for the link...I am familiar with the type of fullered bayonet shown with your rifle (I thought that was the only type of Siamese!)..but am a little confused..did they use both of these bayonets concurrently on the same rifle?

Also as I google I see remarks that these were German used and German made???..Who made the 1888??..There are no markings but its so worn I dont know if there gone or just never there

Heres a couple more pics of the well worn traveler

 

[type96]

John, you'll find the date on the blade end of the bayonet on the flat edge not the sharpe edge, near the crossguard.

 

[painterjohn]

Yes siree..43 is on the flat spine and there is another bird with 63 beneath, just above the press stud..well oposite side from the press stud..that you press...sorry need more coffee

 

[AndyB]

Hello, it could be the turkish rework is made on S71/84 dated 90 for 1890.

 

[painterjohn]

Thank you Andy..

the more I look the more it does look like "90"..Would you have an image of an original Soemmerda S71/84 ??? I just cant seem to find one on the internet.

 

[geladen]

Hi Geladen, Thank you for the link...I am familiar with the type of fullered bayonet shown with your rifle (I thought that was the only type of Siamese!)..but am a little confused..did they use both of these bayonets concurrently on the same rifle?

Also as I google I see remarks that these were German used and German made???..Who made the 1888??..There are no markings but its so worn I dont know if there gone or just never there

Heres a couple more pics of the well worn traveler View attachment 516517 View attachment 516518

Hi painterjohn,

My mistake, I didn't look closely at the photo of your Siamese bayonet and did not notice it was double edged with no fuller. Nor did I see the "1888" in the subject, I must have been half asleep. I had one like that that I sold on Ebay. It fit my Gewehr 88 and I didn't think I would ever be getting a Siamese Gewehr 88.

Your bayonet should have a T slot instead of a T/O slot, so it will not fit the M1903 Siamese, M1904/1907 Mauser, or M1904 Mauser-Vergueiro because of the cleaning rod. I think other dimensions would prevent it fitting those rifles, too.

Your M1888 Siamese is a totally different model from my M1903 Siamese bayonet. Sorry, my bad.

Added: My M1888 Siamese bayonet was crudely made and the only marking was a small circle with something inside it, located on the center side of the crossguard. I am sure it was not German made and suspect it was Siamese made.

Regards,
Bill

 

[AndyB]

http://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j...sg=AFQjCNEHBHkR5CgviaMDidLpa6F1-b1H0A&cad=rja