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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
originally posted by Pisgah...

Please add your number that will extend or drop down the serial numbers below for each manufacture...


As they're estimates, they're all off to some extent. His numbers from 1945 are the farthest off of any of the years due to all of the changes which were instituted late war by the different manufacturers. Here are examples from 1945 including Law's estimates, and why they're wrong:

1. Mauser Oberndorf
Law estimated 205,591 based on the known high svw 45 at the time being numbered 5593b. Law ignored svwMB production as many consider this code to be all French postwar manufactured. I think this belief is unlikely, but will deal with just byf 45 and svw 45 for the sake of comparison. The old KCN ran a serial number study for 1945 Mauser Oberndorfs in 1997. The high number found in that study for the no suffix block of byf 45 was 59,467. The high number a block svw 45 found was 16205a. The high number found for svw 45 in the b block was 5593b. So, actual production for byf 45 and svw 45 was less than 83,000. I say "less than" because some of the byf 45's and svw 45's were rejected by the Waffenamt inspectors and never completed during the war (despite having been assigned serial numbers) and were eventually completed by the French postwar. Law didn't account for the rejected rifles and didn't account for the fact that Mauser Oberndorf never completed any of the 5 digit number blocks of rifles (leading many to believe that the serial number blocks at Mauser Oberndorf corresponded to months of the year from 1943 until the end of the war).

2. Gustloff
Law estimated 91,679 rifles based on the known high serial number of bcd 45 being 91679. The problem is that bcd 4's are known to exist with serial numbers all the way up to the 90 thousand range. When found with five digit serial numbers and in original condition, bcd 4's have late features--semi-Kriegsmodell, complete or partial phosphate finish, rougher machining marks, and fewer serial numbered parts. Based on the fact that these features didn't show up at any manufacturer until late 1944, it's pretty reasonable to assume that Gustloff mixed bcd 4 and bcd 45 receivers in their 1945 production. The best I can offer you with this code is a guess. I see 4-5 (or more) bcd 4's with the five digit serial number for every bcd 45 I see. Part of this is certainly due to the fact that collectors know bcd 45 is uncommon and don't sell them often. So, I would guess that the actual number of bcd 45's was around 20-25,000.

3. Steyr
Law estimated 196,625 bnz 45's and based this on the high known serial number for a bnz 45 being 5935t. The problem with this is that the high known serial number for bnz. 4 is 4917q and the low known serial number for bnz 45 is 4166q. This makes it look like Steyr had continuous numbering from 1944 on. So, likely the q block was a mix of bnz.4 and bnz 45 marked receivers. From what I have read, the final Steyr code (unknown at the time BBOTW was written) was swj XE, and known examples of this code are in the t block. So, a more realistic estimate of 1945 Steyr production would be 36,000.

4. Bystrica
Law estimated 29,712 rifles produced at Bystrica based on the high known serial number being 9079b. Since the Russian capture rifles have been imported since then, I have seen dou.45 serial numbers all the way into the f serial number block. Based on this, a more realistic estimate of dou.45 production would be 70,000.

5. Bruenn
Law estimated 187,684 swp 45's produced based on the low known serial number of 43026a and a high of 87685a. The high known serial number of dot 1944 was 43125a. So the situation at Bruenn seems to resemble what I described at Gustloff. It looks like this factory had a surplus of dot 1944 marked receivers and used them when they started the five digit serial number pattern at the start of 1945. I have seen Russian capture swp 45's with serial numbers in the high 90 thousands of the a block, so based on this I would estimate production for the swp code being around 60,000.

So to sum it up for 1945:
1. Mauser Oberndorf (byf 45 and svw 45 only)= less than 83,000.
2. Bystrica= app. 70,000
3. Bruenn (swp 45 only)= app. 60,000
4. Steyr= app. 36,000
5. Gustloff (bcd 45 only)= app. 20-25,000

Notice that I believe that 1944 dated receivers were used in 1945 produced rifles at Bruenn and Gustloff and this is why I specified that my estimates were for rifles with 1945 dated receivers only instead of total production of rifles for that year. Quite a bit of overkill here in answering your question, but I have frequently alluded to Law's numbers being way off on this board, so took the opportunity to illustrate why
 

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I recently purchased a Israeli 7.62 K98k mauser with a dot 1945 receiver. I cannot find any reference to this receiver in Law's book. Do you have any info on this receiver? Thanks.

Gunfun
 

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I recently purchased a Israeli 7.62 K98k mauser with a dot 1945 receiver. I cannot find any reference to this receiver in Law's book. Do you have any info on this receiver? Thanks.

Gunfun
Unfortunately, the dot 45 code is considered to be a completely postwar code that was assembled by the Czechs postwar.
 

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Pisgah,

Thank you for the response. Do you mean that the Czechs used parts available at the end of the war to assemble complete rifles? The receiver of this rifle has a small waffenamt stamp on the right side and an earlier serial number has been ground off the left side and replaced with a two-digit number that matches the number stamped on the bolt. The waffenamt stamp in particular would indicate to me that the receiver might be wartime production.
 

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i just got a bnz45 serial 2420 with an s below it, walnut k98 stock without the stock disc and hole in cupped buttplate, all parts are stamped, not milled. Not a russian capture evidently, no numbers on side of stock either,
 

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1945 swp45

I have a really nice non-peened RC 1945 SWP45 SN# 56971a
I mated it with a nice semi-kreig stock (Dot).
 

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K98 BNZ 45 Single rune

This rifle is one of three K98's I have over the last year started collecting. This one is all matching except for the bottom plate which has no #. The serial number is 7097 S. Top of the receiver has I think WaA633 then below that Mod.98 then the single rune then bnz45. Cupped buttplate with the hole drilled @ the bottom for bolt disassembly. No disk in the stock. Stock serial # is stamped on the bottom and matches the receiver.No other cartouches on the stock. Also the place that the cleaning rod would normally be has a screw in it. Finish on this one is about 97-98%. Thanks and please let me know if you have any feedback.I forgot to add the barrel markings..... left side has serial #7097S and right in frt of it is an eagle.On the right side is EC and a shield with what looks to be a 7.
 

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Pisgah,

Thank you for the response. Do you mean that the Czechs used parts available at the end of the war to assemble complete rifles? The receiver of this rifle has a small waffenamt stamp on the right side and an earlier serial number has been ground off the left side and replaced with a two-digit number that matches the number stamped on the bolt. The waffenamt stamp in particular would indicate to me that the receiver might be wartime production.
As I understand it, that's exactly what the Czechs did. K98s, and K98 parts, were in great abundance when the war in Europe ended. Thus it made perfect sense to assemble new rifles from those parts to sell abroad.
 
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dou45 c lot

would my c lot dou 45 be a late late war produced rifle? what would the original type of stock be for this k98?

additional pics in the stock markings post.
 

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Have a bnz 45 9886s barrel,rear sight,bolt matching,earlier laminated stock with cleaning rod,flat butt plate,number 1066 ,WaA655.Floor plate and trigger guard 6559 .Photos if you want them. Paddy
 

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would my c lot dou 45 be a late late war produced rifle? what would the original type of stock be for this k98?

additional pics in the stock markings post.
Yes. Your rifle was manufactured late war by the Germans and not postwar by the Czechs. Originally it would have had an unnumbered laminated stock with a cupped buttplate, few external markings, no bayonet mount, stamped bands held in place with woodscrews, and a tube/washer setup in the butt for disassembling the firing pin from the bolt screw (and not a hole in the toe of the buttplate for the same purpose).
 

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bnz45 photos

Here are some photos of my bnz 45 ,#9886s.Picked this non-import marked rifle up at a local gun show about 18 monthes ago.Russian capture rifles were selling for $229 plus and this was sitting at another table with shotguns and 22 rifles,the dealer had taken it in on trade.Anyway for$199,I bought it.Know it is not a proper Kriegs stock,but for what I have seen stocks going for on EBAY,thought I can't go wrong.The sling looks like some post war French or Isreali slings I've seen.Collect German and Polish Mausers,and thought this might be a nice late war rifle. The wood and various hardware,all marked 1096or 1096bb,with WaA655,appear to be early war.The barrel, rear sight parts and bolt(all parts) are 9886s.Yhe bore and bolt face are minty,don"t think this rifle has been fired.Anyway thought I would share the photos. Paddy








 
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