[Rob Ski]

First Big Thanks to Dmitry (Raspootyn) for the rifle and milprileb for setting me up straight with shooting tips!
This girl maybe be born in 1944 but has plenty of "juice" left in her tank...;-) I was able to get her below 1 MOA at 300yds with PPU Match 182gr. Second target picture is 10 shots group on the head (also from 300yds), but it is hard to make out shots...this rifle can shoot for sure!
It took me a moment to get used to the scope setup, which is funny because com block rifles are basically my bread and butter, but this 91/30 is different breed from SVD or PSL54...ha!
Still, I'm shocked how well it shoots. Looking forward to extending legs on that girl! She will have to work hard for the money...

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

Very nice groups, and rifle..<>< dan

 

[supposedbigfoot]

Saw your YouTube post earlier. Can't wait to see a video on this. I have a 1943 Izhevsk PU.

 

[reiver1]

Nice shooting and these old snipers are simply a hoot....nice optics in your scope .... my snipers are my favorite shooters. Most Soviet sniper shots were in the range you were shooting in the trench warfare and city fighting.
Chuikov issued orders that trenches should be as close to the enemy as possible in Stalingrad to protect units from aerial bombardment and indirect fire....hard to do when on top of each other.
Can you imagine the effectiveness of the PE/PEM at those ranges...often no more that 50 meters and rarely over 100 in position...3-400 meters would be considered a long shot.
Re reading Beevor's book on that presently...I suspect it will get a 3rd read too it is so informative.

I will bet you could tighten that up with some handloading...not that you need to but making my own loads is fun too. Two snipers require .312 and the PU .311.

Have fun....keep a log of all of your kills and you'll get your Red Star in no time.

 

[Rob Ski]

Nice shooting and these old snipers are simply a hoot....nice optics in your scope .... my snipers are my favorite shooters. Most Soviet sniper shots were in the range you were shooting in the trench warfare and city fighting.
Chuikov issued orders that trenches should be as close to the enemy as possible in Stalingrad to protect units from aerial bombardment and indirect fire....hard to do when on top of each other.
Can you imagine the effectiveness of the PE/PEM at those ranges...often no more that 50 meters and rarely over 100 in position...3-400 meters would be considered a long shot.
Re reading Beevor's book on that presently...I suspect it will get a 3rd read too it is so informative.

I will bet you could tighten that up with some handloading...not that you need to but making my own loads is fun too. Two snipers require .312 and the PU .311.

Have fun....keep a log of all of your kills and you'll get your Red Star in no time.

I read multiple memoirs and books from both sides. Snipers on the eastern font went through some crazy stuff for sure. Many kills on both side were scored within 300m and rarely you can hear them "bragging" about longer shots - however, those were taken as well. I think it literally sucked to be machine gunner for example on either side...
Many of them were also saying, that only 1 or 2 shots from the same position were safe to take. Otherwise you were killed. Per our doctrine today, we teach no more than 3 shots from the same spot...
As far as sniper skills, what is interesting to me, that both sides complemented each other on field craft and camouflaging techniques. I think those who survived and were able to fight to the end, had to have some outstanding practical knowledge and tons of luck. If you didn't have those skills, you were rather quickly put to sleep, no matter which side you were fighting for...

 

[Snayperskaya]

Very nice OP :thumbsup:

If you don't already I'd reload for it, you'll find the group size may decrease drastically especially if the old girl is shimmed etc as well.

I also own a '44 Izhevsk PU that is arsenal matching with an immaculate bore/muzzle and was shimmed/zero'd at the arsenal (mount coarse elevation screws still staked etc) and with handloads is capable of half inch five shot groups at 100m if I do my part so these rifles have the potential to be very accurate indeed, even by modern standards.

My Russian "mother and daughter" pair.....

 

[reiver1]

I read multiple memoirs and books from both sides. Snipers on the eastern font went through some crazy stuff for sure. Many kills on both side were scored within 300m and rarely you can hear them "bragging" about longer shots - however, those were taken as well. I think it literally sucked to be machine gunner for example on either side...
Many of them were also saying, that only 1 or 2 shots from the same position were safe to take. Otherwise you were killed. Per our doctrine today, we teach no more than 3 shots from the same spot...
As far as sniper skills, what is interesting to me, that both sides complemented each other on field craft and camouflaging techniques. I think those who survived and were able to fight to the end, had to have some outstanding practical knowledge and tons of luck. If you didn't have those skills, you were rather quickly put to sleep, no matter which side you were fighting for...

The best Soviet sniper I've read is 'Red Sniper on the Eastern front' by Pilyushin...totally a Leningrad event and he is/was a down to earth guy with minimal propaganda (that was a must for books written in the day) ... Zaitsev wrote an interesting book but there is propaganda stories written in with reality so you have to have a little experience to figure out what's true and what was written by some propagandist.
Pavlichenko's book 'Lady Death' is total bullshit served up hot....she was invented for her trip to the USA....'Red Army Sniper' by Nokolaev has some interesting sections too but he was an NKVD guy so everyone is 110% Communist and again...hard to tell what is fact/fiction.
I wish some of the real female snipers had written something....

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

Snay -Which of those two shoots the best groups the bolt action or semi? <>< dan
ivd always had that question on my mind..

 

[reiver1]

If I remember correctly he said the gas system has been made inoperable due to local law.... he has two 'bolt' actions....

 

[Snayperskaya]

If I remember correctly he said the gas system has been made inoperable due to local law.... he has two 'bolt' actions....

That is correct reiver, no gas port drilled unfortunately but to be honest being a straight pull doesn't really detract from the experience as it prefers a cold barrel so a higher rate of fire just for range use isn't really needed.The Soviet manual states that the SVD rate of fire should be kept below two rounds per minute in order to maintain accuracy, unless operational circumstances dictate otherwise.

To answer your question DK......they both shoot remarkable similar, both will shoot sub-MOA with handloads providing I do my part but with, as an example, Russian 188/77 LPS the SVD has the edge although neither are none to shabby with milsurp.

 

[jjjxlr8]

Here's a couple of examples of 'good' groups I've shot with good military surplus ammo on the PU and SVD (NDM-86, actually). These were 5 shot groups at 100 yds. shooting from a bench with a front bag.

1943 PU Sniper - seemed to like both heavy and light ball, just a shift in POI




Chinese NDM-86 (Type 79) Sniper - this was 7N1 ammo from factory 1988, dated 1997

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

Thanks for your explanations..answers my thoughts.<>< dan

 

[Raspootyn]

The best Soviet sniper I've read is 'Red Sniper on the Eastern front' by Pilyushin...totally a Leningrad event and he is/was a down to earth guy with minimal propaganda (that was a must for books written in the day) ... Zaitsev wrote an interesting book but there is propaganda stories written in with reality so you have to have a little experience to figure out what's true and what was written by some propagandist.
Pavlichenko's book 'Lady Death' is total bullshit served up hot....she was invented for her trip to the USA....'Red Army Sniper' by Nokolaev has some interesting sections too but he was an NKVD guy so everyone is 110% Communist and again...hard to tell what is fact/fiction.


I wish some of the real female snipers had written something....

--- Here you go. Read Rosa's experience in her own words. Very raw - politcs - https://rozasdiary.com/

In October, 1944, Roza began keeping a diary of her life in the army. This was strictly forbidden and, as such, it is one of only a handful in existence.

 

[Rob Ski]

The best Soviet sniper I've read is 'Red Sniper on the Eastern front' by Pilyushin...totally a Leningrad event and he is/was a down to earth guy with minimal propaganda (that was a must for books written in the day) ... Zaitsev wrote an interesting book but there is propaganda stories written in with reality so you have to have a little experience to figure out what's true and what was written by some propagandist.
Pavlichenko's book 'Lady Death' is total bullshit served up hot....she was invented for her trip to the USA....'Red Army Sniper' by Nokolaev has some interesting sections too but he was an NKVD guy so everyone is 110% Communist and again...hard to tell what is fact/fiction.
I wish some of the real female snipers had written something....

Yes, separating propaganda from reality on both sides is difficult task. Communist propaganda was strong in those books for sure. However, I found few accounts in Pavlichenko's book rather interesting, she literally poop all over the place on SVT, saying basically that this rifle wasn't fit for service...that kind of "criticism" that something made in Soviet Union wasn't good was kind of surprising. On that note, I love how German snipers point out brutalities committed by soviets at the front lines, but conveniently skip recalling what their "friends" did during fighting...With small exception from Sepp Allerberger, he actually point out simply war crimes committed by both sides...Interestingly enough, he was also sporting captured Mosin sniper rifle.

 

[Rob Ski]

Here's a couple of examples of 'good' groups I've shot with good military surplus ammo on the PU and SVD (NDM-86, actually). These were 5 shot groups at 100 yds. shooting from a bench with a front bag.

1943 PU Sniper - seemed to like both heavy and light ball, just a shift in POI

Chinese NDM-86 (Type 79) Sniper - this was 7N1 ammo from factory 1988, dated 1997

and @ Snayperskaya - Beautiful rifles guys and outstanding shooting!
From my experiences with both, SVD and NDM, those guns will do the job as long as you are willing to work with them...many people just settle for some old surplus ammo and wonder why rifle is grouping at 5 MOA....

 

[Rob Ski]

--- Here you go. Read Rosa's experience in her own words. Very raw - politcs - https://rozasdiary.com/

In October, 1944, Roza began keeping a diary of her life in the army. This was strictly forbidden and, as such, it is one of only a handful in existence.

Rosa's diary is raw and sad to read...
Make sure you will read at the end "What Happened to Anya Nesterova and Lyuba Tanailova?" section...hands down...

 

[Red1917]

Fantastic shooting. Can't wait to see some video. My 44 Izhevsk is also a great shooter that hovers around 1.5-2 MOA out to 200 yards with 148 grain Tulammo. Working on some handloads for it this week actually. Keep up the good work Rob!

 

[Snayperskaya]

and @ Snayperskaya - Beautiful rifles guys and outstanding shooting!
From my experiences with both, SVD and NDM, those guns will do the job as long as you are willing to work with them...many people just settle for some old surplus ammo and wonder why rifle is grouping at 5 MOA....

When I was looking to buy the SVD someone gave me a piece of advice I followed and it really paid off.....that piece of advice was to shoot nothing else but the SVD for 12 months and get to know it inside out and this, in conjunction with quality handloads, is the result......

5-shot group shot from a rest at 100m, .311" 150gr PPU SPBT/PPU brass/Vihtavuori N140 powder


5-shots from '44 Izhevsk PU , 100m from a rest with the same bullet etc as above but using Ramshot Big Game powder .Steel case is for size reference.


I also work with a gentleman that served in the VDV in Afghanistan from '87 to '89 and he has given me a lot of advice as well, I actually took him to my range on a guest day and his eyes lit up like a kid on Christmas morning when he saw the SVD and I can tell you he can still shoot! :thumbsup:

 

[reiver1]

I'm familiar with Rosa and her friends but had not read that....this is an excellent book about Soviet females at war...it won a Nobel prize and is short stories in the soldiers own words....

'The Unwomanly Face of War' by Svetlana Alexievich.... an oral history..

I won't go the monetary distance for an SVD...crazy...but may go for a Romanian PSL...I know they are very dif but it could be fun.

Ski... I don't believe Pavlichenko was a sniper at all and many recent Russian historians don't think so either... her 'war stories' are filled with stupid acts that would have gotten anyone killed...it reads like an American Western novel... she was 'created' for her USA trip by Stalin. The only time she was actually talked into a shooting demonstration is was a sub par event....the 'real' male sniper that accompanied her nailed it in the demo.

 

[Rob Ski]

I'm familiar with Rosa and her friends but had not read that....this is an excellent book about Soviet females at war...it won a Nobel prize and is short stories in the soldiers own words....

'The Unwomanly Face of War' by Svetlana Alexievich.... an oral history..

I won't go the monetary distance for an SVD...crazy...but may go for a Romanian PSL...I know they are very dif but it could be fun.

Ski... I don't believe Pavlichenko was a sniper at all and many recent Russian historians don't think so either... her 'war stories' are filled with stupid acts that would have gotten anyone killed...it reads like an American Western novel... she was 'created' for her USA trip by Stalin. The only time she was actually talked into a shooting demonstration is was a sub par event....the 'real' male sniper that accompanied her nailed it in the demo.

Everything is possible, Soviet's propaganda machine was working overtime all the time! I think this wouldn't be hard for them to pull it off...we will probably never know for sure either way...