[daveccarlson]

I was trying to find the thread of folks with USSR-mfr. 91/30s with post-1936 hex receiver rifles but could not find it

Anyhow, I just got an unusual 91/30, at least to my experience.
The barrel has no markings except a provisional black powder proof, the date "1941" in about the spot where it would go on a typical Tula, and a three digit serial number. It has a hex receiver with the Tula hammer at the top, a diamond-shaped mark (refurb?) and a three digit date and Tula hammer on the tang: 919 or 1919!

All the serial numbered parts match the three digit number, and it has a pre-war style stock with the screwed-in escutcheons. The metal finish is really good, except on disassembly I found some mud or sacred soil of Mother Russia or something under the barrel in one spot that has caused pitting of the metal. The nose-cap area of the stock has been repaired, and there are metal shims installed under the stock in the channel for the magazine/trigger-guard assembly. The second half of 1941 would have been a busy time, so I could see why there is no arsenal mark on the barrel shank, but has anyone seen a Soviet-made 91/30 like that?

Does anyone else here have a post-1935 or 1936 hex receiver Mosin Nagant?

 

[v i t]

IDoes anyone else here have a post-1935 or 1936 hex receiver Mosin Nagant?

Soviets recycled older receivers all the time. Some receivers were used more that twice to build different rifles. It's not unusual to see a pre Soviet receiver built into a Dragoon after the revolution, just to be converted into a 91/30 at a later date. Recycled hex receivers were even used to build M44's like this Tula:

 

[daveccarlson]

Thanks. What is the date on the M44 in the photo?

I have an ex-Dragoon like you describe with a 1927 barrel and a 1905 receiver, but this is apparently a Tula 1941 91/30 rather than a later war rifle or carbine. Thanks for the great photo of the M44. I'll try to post better pics later. But for now:

 

[gun_nut_73]

I have a non-refurbished M44 with a 1945 barrel on an 1895 receiver.

 

[Draybo]

Not too common.

They are out there but uncommon in my opinion.

I came across a Finned 91/30 1938 Ishevsk on a hex receiver. I don't recall the receiver date but believe it was in the teens'. They are neat!

Great find indeed. Has your rifle been in the hands of the Finns?

Draybo : )

 

[v i t]

Thanks. What is the date on the M44 in the photo?

It's a 44, even the tang is restamped:

 

[tedley2]

I had a 91/30 I picked up in the early 80's from SARCO, non-import marked. It was a mismatch Hex Rec. with a 1937 barrel [dimly recall a star, so MIGHT have been Tula] with SN #7. Sold in the early 90's to a fellow in Gettysburg, who sold to someone else. It's still floating around somewhere in the PA/Md area, probably. It had a sewer pipe bore but I was lucky to have gotten it for $50 back then, as this was about 14 years after the 69 GCA and years before the end of import restrictions and the Cold War, which brought in the current batch of Russian Mosins in. Used it for WWII Russian Front reenacting in the 80's.

 

[daveccarlson]

A better photo

The barrel shank is so clean and uncluttered by marks I thought at first glance it might have been a Finn'd, but it looks all ex-USSR.

I hope this is a better image of the barrel shank:

Interesting to hear of your rifles too...#7! That is a low number!

 

[car99]

Nice one, not many 1941's out there.

 

[hoosier8]

Thanks. What is the date on the M44 in the photo?

I have an ex-Dragoon like you describe with a 1927 barrel and a 1905 receiver, but this is apparently a Tula 1941 91/30 rather than a later war rifle or carbine. Thanks for the great photo of the M44. I'll try to post better pics later. But for now:

I have been looking for a 41 Tula just because they didn't produce many in 41 due to having to leave their factory due to the German advance. Nice.

 

[daveccarlson]

I took out the Eastern Front map to check out just what you describe. During the German advance on Moscow, it looks like Tula was a salient, with the Russians just barely holding on.

There seems a discrepancy: 7.62x54r has 1941 Tulas as uncommon:
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRarity.htm

But production figures on mosinnagant.net:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Soviet-M9130.asp
(scroll down) has close to a million Tula rifles in 1941, but post June 1941/1942 production of only approximately 150,000+.

Can folks recommend another source for Tula arsenal figures? (I suspect there is nothing hard and fast available). Thanks for your input. Much obliged.

 

[cbanker101]

I took out the Eastern Front map to check out just what you describe. During the German advance on Moscow, it looks like Tula was a salient, with the Russians just barely holding on.

There seems a discrepancy: 7.62x54r has 1941 Tulas as uncommon:
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRarity.htm

But production figures on mosinnagant.net:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Soviet-M9130.asp
(scroll down) has close to a million Tula rifles in 1941, but post June 1941/1942 production of only approximately 150,000+.

Can folks recommend another source for Tula arsenal figures? (I suspect there is nothing hard and fast available). Thanks for your input. Much obliged.

I think Tula got shut down in 42 to move the plant. I think thats why production numbers are so low in that year. My first 91/30 is a 42 Tula and think that part of its history really adds something to it, at least for me.

 

[DudleyDR]

Is the barrel a 1941 Tula? A rifle/carbine with any Tula receiver does not a "1941 Tula" make. You still have a neat and desireable rifle! DDR

 

[rocker98]

Is the barrel a 1941 Tula? A rifle/carbine with any Tula receiver does not a "1941 Tula" make. You still have a neat and desireable rifle! DDR

He didn't state one way or the other. There's only a date, and a serial number on the barrel. The receiver is an old one, but does not indicate "where" it was assembled, even if it is a Tula receiver.

Definitely an odd one that I would not have passed on either.

 

[DudleyDR]

The comment in the post by "hoosier8" about looking for a 1941 Tula triggered my post. DDR

 

[hoosier8]

Is the barrel a 1941 Tula? A rifle/carbine with any Tula receiver does not a "1941 Tula" make. You still have a neat and desireable rifle! DDR

A good for instance is my 44 Tula M44 is on an Ishevsk undated round receiver.

 

[Vic]

I have two 1944 91/30's in Hex receivers. One Tula and one Izhevsk and they are heavily buffed and hand stamped.

 

[daveccarlson]

Is the barrel a 1941 Tula? A rifle/carbine with any Tula receiver does not a "1941 Tula" make. You still have a neat and desireable rifle! DDR

You are correct DudleyDR. Since there are no markings other than the date and serial no., I don't know if it was put together at Tula or at Izhevsk. I guess it'll just remain a mystery of sorts. I just got back from the range, and it is a "shooter." It seems to like M1908 ball more than the 182gr., which it throws high and to the right at 110yds/100m.

Much of the rifle is Tula, except the barrel bands, rear sight, and cocking knob, but I don't know about the barrel... just the receiver. Thanks for the comparisons with other re-assembled rifles/re-used parts out there.

 

[daveccarlson]

Font-type a clue?

Dear Mosin-Nagant cognoscenti:

Could the font of the numbers offer any clues?
It seems to me that pre-1928 numbers had a more elaborate font, both Izhevsk and Tula.
Post-1928 it seems that Tula numbers used a base on the number "1" but later switched to a simple line for number 1. Similarly, the number "4" is closed on Tula, yes? But on most Izhevsk 4s are open at the top, perhaps?
Were the numbers used to strike the marks "typical" for either arsenal, or is this a wrong-headed approach to identifying rifle marks?

Thanks.

 

[gaweidert]

I have a 1943 dated Tula made 91/30 on a 1924 dated Tula receiver.