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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, I am new to the forum, but not new to Mosin's. I started with the typical m91/30 and blasted off to m44's, m38's, DDR marks, 2x and 3x MO's, and have since found myself obsessed with [SA] Finnish Capture and Made Mosin's.

This will be a series of threads to gain as much info on them as possible, much of which I have researched and know but there are always things I don't know as well! Also, information as to their collector value as well would be appreciated.

This is the curve ball for sure, A 1937r Tula m91/30 with proper [SA] and "D" stampings. The Russian finish has been removed and a thin-medium coat of brown (Pine Tar?) finish has been applied. This finish would likely have to be after the Germans captured the rifle and sent it through the Kru-1 depot for approval of German use, then given to the Finns in 43' or 44' to shoot more Russians? Please do nit-pick this rifle, I obtained it from my local FFL that got it long ago and left it buried in one of his safes. He only know about the [SA] stamps and that I collect them. 2 Kru-1 stamps at the wrist of the stock behind trigger guard. Also, a 2nd circle on stock near CCCP Cartouche. Got her for $150 and an SVT-40 for $800.
:)











 

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looks like a Finnish captured 91/30 with a Finnish applied pine tar mix before given it to thier German Allies. Of course it could be the other way of round. Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this. Regardless a very interesting rifle for a great price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It does look like the Pine Tar was applied and then the German Stamps were printed on top. Everyone that has spoken on this rifle says it wouldn't be Russia->Finland->Germany and therefore a fake. They said it must be Russia->Germany->Finland...

As seen in this direct sunlight shot, the stamps must have been Post-Tar.

 

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looks like a Finnish captured 91/30 with a Finnish applied pine tar mix before given it to thier German Allies.
I am not aware of Finland giving Mosins to Germany. I was under the impression that Germany gave some rifles and parts to Finland at one point during the war.
 

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i may be wrong.. its hard to keep this on track without a place to reference regarding mosin nagants and these oddities in their history. I thought Finland gave rifles to Germany in their territory for ease of logistics etc.

I trust the folks over in Finland will swing on to this thread and straighten me out either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am not aware of Finland giving Mosins to Germany. I was under the impression that Germany gave some rifles and parts to Finland at one point during the war.

That's what I was led to believe as well, I would assume Finland wanted every Mosin they could get their hands on and couldn't afford to sell/give away any that they had (especially complete ones). It is possible the stamps were before the Tar application as well, and the relative shine the light shows on them is from their smoothed/pressed nature of being a stamping?..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
These are truly "few and far between" as German's did not care for Mosin's unless PU's etc. It's quite possible that this stock was mated to this action+barrel in Finland when Germany gave their 2,000+/- captured Mosin's to them in 43' and 44'. Typically in parts bins as they were so worn...
 

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Captured in 1941, reworked at Krakau sometime later, and later sold to the Fins. There was at least one arms sale between Germany and Finland in mid-1944, and perhaps more earlier. A German collector friend found the German documentation from early 1945 listing the number and type of arms sold in 1944/45. It was substantially more than 2K guns (nor were they junk parts), so not sure where you got that number. The Finns never gave the Germans any rifles, because the Germans had more than they could ever use. Its hard to exaggerate the amount of equipment, including 91/30, the Germans captured in 1941 and 1942. They issued hundreds of thousands of Russian rifles, gas masks, etc. in the east.

While these guns usually have none of their original parts, the depot did renumber everything to match. The stock, while real, is obviously not original to the gun, and was swapped around during a later Finn rework. I assume the other parts do not match either?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The Barrel and Bolt match, the magazine is a struck out number and and the Butt-Plate is another. Any idea who stamped the receiver as well, matching number to the barrel and bolt? Not typical to see on a Russian...
 

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Captured in 1941, reworked at Krakau sometime later, and later sold to the Fins. There was at least one arms sale between Germany and Finland in mid-1944, and perhaps more earlier. A German collector friend found the German documentation from early 1945 listing the number and type of arms sold in 1944/45. It was substantially more than 2K guns (nor were they junk parts), so not sure where you got that number. The Finns never gave the Germans any rifles, because the Germans had more than they could ever use. Its hard to exaggerate the amount of equipment, including 91/30, the Germans captured in 1941 and 1942. They issued hundreds of thousands of Russian rifles, gas masks, etc. in the east.

While these guns usually have none of their original parts, the depot did renumber everything to match. The stock, while real, is obviously not original to the gun, and was swapped around during a later Finn rework. I assume the other parts do not match either?
Thanks for the clarification Ryan. Good information here. Will keep it in mind.


The Barrel and Bolt match, the magazine is a struck out number and and the Butt-Plate is another. Any idea who stamped the receiver as well, matching number to the barrel and bolt? Not typical to see on a Russian...
Importer stamped the receiver.
 

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Gotcha, I've only seen electro-pen imports. So, so far we have approved the stamps as true, just not original to the gun of course?
Kru1 stamps are real. The ground/renumbered buttplate is mismatched, so unlikely that the stock is original to the rework. Bolts on these depot reworks are typically blued also.

A member recently picked up an all matching depot rework. Maybe he will post it at some point...
 

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Yes indeed but most I have seen are on 91/30's. Can the number in the waffen mark be read in person? I can not see it in any of the pictures well enough to know the number. Bill
It's not a waffenamt and it isn't a number. It is a Heereszeugamt (HZa) inspection. The WaA had no involvement with repairs or foreign weapons.

Letters under the eagle are 'Kru1', which is the equipment depot (HZa) at Krakau. The 1 is probably the workshop, department, or inspector responsible for small arms.
 

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The Germans would have no reason for taking Mosin's or really anything from the Finnish since they had a surplus of captured weapons. So many that they freely given to the Finnish.
I am not aware of Finland giving Mosins to Germany. I was under the impression that Germany gave some rifles and parts to Finland at one point during the war.
 
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