[DavidA]

A while back before Christmas I was considering selling my 1916 St Petersburg Cavalry School Carbine pending the arrival of a 1913 Cavalry School Carbine I had found in the former East Germany.

It has taken much longer than I had anticipated to take delivery, howvever happy to say it arrived safely last week after a European tour and sea cruise to reach me. I have attached some pics, and some more to follow, plus some of the 1916 Cavalry School Carbine as a comparison.

In his notes on the Cavalry School Carbine, KH Wrobel mentions that he knew of only one Cavalry School carbine complete with Imperial markings, rather than having the Imperial acceptence marks either scrubbed or removed as found in the few that turned up in Germany in the early 1990's, since then others may have appeared, however this is the only one I have seen unscrubbed. It is a 1913 Sestrorestk with all matching numbers, all Imperial Marks, all parts are marked with the Sestrorestk arrow ,even the rear sight leaf spring, it has no modern German proof marks, and the modified barrel bands, and sling swivel are marked with a cloverleaf mark.

In comparison with my 1916 Carbine which was one of a small number that appeared in Germany in the early 1990's, it is in essence the same apart from it has not be refurnished, although probably refinished in the past, the numbers are the same size and style as other MN's of the period, rather than the slightly larger numbers found on the carbines which were found in Germany, and which might possibly be early WW2 refurbs as some are found with the marks 41 over 11 on the side of the rear sight, which could indicate the refurb date

I would be interested to exchange notes with anyone else who has a Imperial marked Cavalry School Carbine, with the Imperial acceptance marks still in place

Second post to follow with some more pics, and some of my 1916 carbine.

Cheers

DavidA

 

[DavidA]

Some more pics + 1916 Cavalry School Carbine

Some more pics, 4 x 1913 and 6 x 1916

Cheers

David

 

[martin08]

Thank you for the show.

Seeing the 1907 style sights on a Sestroryestk blows my mind.

 

[Denny]

Very cool David and thanks for the pics. Hope you get the bayo you are after. Denny

 

[themosinator]

Wow!!!...ummm...just Wowwwww!...

 

[stuart_482]

so what is a cavalry school carbine?

 

[clayshooter2]

so what is a cavalry school carbine?

It is a carbine made for the Cossak cavalry schools. This may help.
http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?topic=12432.0

 

[DavidA]

For the collector of Imperial Russian arms, something which only the very rich, or very lucky can ever hope to acquire, or the foolish or brave, depending on your point of view, I have two so I must be both

Seriously have a look at this link, it will provide you the background, they are probably one of the scarcest Mosin Nagant carbines you could hope to find, there are believed to be prototype carbines used in cavalry troop trials before WW1, and specifically designed to use the even rarer Gulkevichi folding bayonet, hence the bayonet scabbard on the side. They are believed to have been used through the WW1 period

They are understood to been issued for trials by the St Petersburg Cavalry School, Cavalry Regiments, Border Troops and Cossack troops

There are only a handful known

The link to KH Wrobel's translation of his chapter in his book on the Mosin Nagant is here, courtesy of Mosin Nagant net

http://www.mosinnagant.net/original/Karl-Heinz/mosin_nagant_carbine_karl_heinz_.htm

Hope you find that interesting

 

[stuart_482]

thanks for the info

ahem

HOLY CRAP

 

[Makarov_EG]

Thank You for posting.

 

[Vic]

A while back before Christmas I was considering selling my 1916 St Petersburg Cavalry School Carbine pending the arrival of a 1913 Cavalry School Carbine I had found in the former East Germany.

It has taken much longer than I had anticipated to take delivery, howvever happy to say it arrived safely last week after a European tour and sea cruise to reach me. I have attached some pics, and some more to follow, plus some of the 1916 Cavalry School Carbine as a comparison.

In his notes on the Cavalry School Carbine, KH Wrobel mentions that he knew of only one Cavalry School carbine complete with Imperial markings, rather than having the Imperial acceptence marks either scrubbed or removed as found in the few that turned up in Germany in the early 1990's, since then others may have appeared, however this is the only one I have seen unscrubbed. It is a 1913 Sestrorestk with all matching numbers, all Imperial Marks, all parts are marked with the Sestrorestk arrow ,even the rear sight leaf spring, it has no modern German proof marks, and the modified barrel bands, and sling swivel are marked with a cloverleaf mark.

In comparison with my 1916 Carbine which was one of a small number that appeared in Germany in the early 1990's, it is in essence the same apart from it has not be refurnished, although probably refinished in the past, the numbers are the same size and style as other MN's of the period, rather than the slightly larger numbers found on the carbines which were found in Germany, and which might possibly be early WW2 refurbs as some are found with the marks 41 over 11 on the side of the rear sight, which could indicate the refurb date

I would be interested to exchange notes with anyone else who has a Imperial marked Cavalry School Carbine, with the Imperial acceptance marks still in place

Second post to follow with some more pics, and some of my 1916 carbine.

Cheers

DavidA

All of mine plus the two others I have had all had markings intact.

 

[ExecChef]

You just never know whats going to show up on Gunboards.

Chef

 

[Turtlewolf]

All I can say is OMFG!!!!
Vic, do you have links to yours as well (not surprised you have one or two or fifteen)?
cheers

 

[JPS]

Hello Gents,

I'm not home right now (what else is new?), but in my library I have two sets of books published in Russia that cover a broad range of bayonets and edged weapons. While I am certain that I personally acquired the books after Karl-Heinz completed his work, without checking the date of publication of both books, I cannot say whether or not the information in the Russian books was available to Karl-Heinz when he wrote his excellent work on the M91 Three-Line Rifle and it's variants?

According to the Russian source, these carbines were issued for troops trials before WWI and were issued to a number of different regiments during WWI. The focus of the information is on the Gulkavich bayonet, however there is quite a bit of detail regarding the units involved in the trials as well as the issue of these carbines and bayonets to Cossack regiments during WWI.

I'll have Valentina scan this info and email it to me and I'll post it here on this thread.

Here is a photo of the example in my Collection.

As a side note, an original Gulkavich folding bayonet recently sold on eBay for $4000. That's JUST FOR THE BAYONET!

Nice find David!

Warmest regards,

JPS

 

[JPS]

Hello Gents,

Valentina is dynamite when comes to digging through the library for me, scanning the info and then emailing it to me.

Here you go Gents! From the excellent and interesting set of books I picked up in a Museum bookstore in Russia. The first set purchased was only in Russian, which was fine since Valentina can translation for me, however later during the same trip in a different Museum bookstore, I found another set that has English notations in it. The two volume set is:

"Russian Sidearms, Pole-arms and Bayonets 18 - 20th Century" Volume II. by A. N. Kulinsky

The Russian is first, followed by a synopsis of each section in English with line drawings or black and white photos of each weapon.

The text is quite interesting and is specific enough that it must come from original source material from somewhere in the Russian archives. These carbines, while still in very small number relative to the millions of M91s issued during WWI, were still produced in larger numbers than expected.

It was through this two volume work that I was also able to finally ID my unusual Berdan II with the bayonet lug and tenon was one of 300 trials rifles produced in 1876.

Hope this info helps.

Warmest regards,

John

 

[rocker98]

thanks for the info

ahem

HOLY CRAP

May I add...HOLY CRAP BATMAN!

Batman: You got it Robin! That's something you will never find.

Wowzers!

 

[Pahtu]

Gulp....really cool carbine!

Pahtu.

 

[LVSteve]

This puts some perspective on my browsing in a Vegas pawn shop today. Wow, and may I say...WOW!

 

[DavidA]

John,

Thanks for the bayonet information, I have just located another one that has turned up after being found in Russia, it is now in Europe, it was one of three found originally, hence the one on eBay I think came from the same source, it's not quite $4000, so must be an absolute bargain

A few pics attached, might mean a sale :-(

I hope you like the pics, you may need to edit them for contrast / brightness

Cheers

David

 

[tplan]

As always, David, very nice. Thanks for showing us.

John