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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Here's the next one :)

1912 German 98/05 for Saxony ("FA12")

Transitional model with a fitted flashguard and filed-down ears. Has also been blued overall after the war. It's my only Saxon piece, and a rare combination of having been adapted to neuer Art and being blued afterwards.

Nice matching assembly marks beneath the grips and inside the press-stud, remains of the re-assembly process after the blueing. Also indicating that was the time the press stud got slotted or replaced with a slotted one.

Plain-headed bolts have also been slotted.

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Kris1981, VERY NICE BAYONET!!! The hunt to find those beauties to me is 2nd best to having sex!! (So my wife says)
Haha, it might be unwise to go into a discussion there ;-)

It's getting harder and harder to find the 98/05 models I'm still missing. Most are several transitional models, or Bavarian / Saxon sawbacks. This one had a combination of features I didn't have yet. I guess the hunt is never-ending, and remains better than the catch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Question:

At this point, I'm labelling all blued 98/05 bayonets in my collection as "used during the Weimar era". I specify those used by Weimar police because of their V-notched pommel.

Is there any way to tell wether a blued bayonet has been used by the third reich aswell? Some of my blued bayonets have the plain-headed bolts and/or the press stud slotted, others do not have these features.

Were these bolts slotted in the Weimar era aswell?

When exactly did the blueing of bayonets start (1920's ? / 1930's ?)

Were blued bayonets used by others than the police during the Weimar / Third Reich eras?

Even without any clear regimental/reichswehr or police markings, I'd like to be able to determine the correct time period for these - if at all possible.

Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you. But what if there are no markings? What I meant was: Is it possible to determin the period by the blueing and replacing/slotting the bolts and/or press-stud alone?

In his book on the subject, Wheeler mentions that blued bayonets had their press-stud and/or bolts slotted post-1927 to adapt them to the new style of 84/98 bayonets made by W.u.K.

I can see from examples in my personal collection that early Reichswehr bayonets were still in the white, while later ones can be blued.

Is it known when the blueing started?

How can one determin wether a blued / slotted piece saw service in the Weimar AND/OR Nazi era?
 

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... When exactly did the blueing of bayonets start (1920's ? / 1930's ?) ...
I don't know if anyone has the answer to that but the 'browning' = 'blueing' of service 84/98 bayonets is stipulated in an order issued by 'Der Chef der Heersleitung" dated 03 06 1932, which means in theory that Weimar-issued examples were probably not blued.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't know if anyone has the answer to that but the 'browning' = 'blueing' of service 84/98 bayonets is stipulated in an order issued by 'Der Chef der Heersleitung" dated 03 06 1932, which means in theory that Weimar-issued examples were probably not blued.
Hi Julian. Thank you for this, it could be very significant. Where did you find this order? Blueing must have been decided officially at some point in the interbellum timeline.

Reworks looks like late 30ies done, the piece dont have 1920 stamp so in reality could be not Weimar used, only stored anyway? b.r.Andy
Thanks Andy. That's what it looks like, yes. It would explain why there's such a variety of 1920 stamped and/or blued bayonets to be found. In fact, none of my blue butchers have the Weimar issue 1920-stamp (they either never had it, or it was removed during the 30's rework. In any case, I really need one ;-))

Looks like the blueing can be tied with the re-armament in the 30's.

What I'm asking myself is if alter Art bayonets were still blued aswell. In his book on the subject, Wheeler shows at least one example with Postal Service markings... it still has the sawback (!) So yes, stored away during the Weimar era and re-used as of the early/mid 30's. Consequently blued / slotted to fit the style of the era.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
At the risk of going slightly off-topic; here's another one I'd like to know more about:

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A 1918 Fichtel & Sachs production for Bavaria. Reworked post-war, with matching assembly number 0587 on every loose part aswell as on the obverse ricasso.

The scabbard has a few odd markings, and the crossguard is stamped "A A 24 197". Any idea what regiment that could be and why this marking would remain on a 30's used bayonet?
 

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I dont see any attachement, the pictures should be smaller size or other format, AA could be stands for Artillerie Abteilung nr.24 or Ausbildung Battery of Artillery Regt.??, the photos would be helpfull.b.r.Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
It is 'L/18' yes, here's a detail.

Material property Metal


And that's exactly what confuses me. Also, there are no dots between the letters and numbers. I don't know if that was common or not, but it seems odd to me.

Is it even an Imperial marking?

I'm guessing the serial markings on the scabbard are post-rework? Also, the screw that attaches the internal spring-mechanism has been replaced with a larger screw. A few of my reworks show that.
 

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Scabbard was probably refurbished but has different serial or inventar number, so probably not paired with the bayonet, the bayonet itself looks like refurbished in germany, anyway the unit could be a Weimar period or other state stamp.b.r.Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Scabbard was probably refurbished but has different serial or inventar number, so probably not paired with the bayonet, the bayonet itself looks like refurbished in germany, anyway the unit could be a Weimar period or other state stamp.b.r.Andy
Scabbards are rarely pared with these Imperial bayonets. I only have two which have matching serial / inventory numbers, one of them being a Waffenfabrik Mauser stamped scabbard aswell. Otherwise, one can never be sure. My first find 25 years ago was a 1917 Weyersberg production found in a leather old style scabbard. They were stuck together between rooftiles for decades and aged well. But even then a leather scabbard on a 1917 neuer Art is not really correct :)

Too bad this AA-marked bayonet does not have a matching Weimar (or other) serialnumber. But is has enough other markings to spark my interest.

A.A. (WITH dots after each letter) is designated as "Feldartillerie-Regiment / Abteilung..." (both by Roy Williams and Rüdiger Franz)
Both see it as an Imperial marking.
 
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