[fourbore]

This discussion was an eye opener. That video was shown in Post #1. No harm to post it twice.

After reading this I was wondering if there was a no brainer way to reload. First and obvious to me is cast bullets. They are softer more gentle and easy for expanding gas to push. A good candidate for Trailboss. I like the idea of using enough powder to make a double charge impossible.

One zombie thread worth being brought back to life.

 

[bigmancrisler]

Roamergrg,

I just (today) read your account from 9 months back and it is, for all intents and purposes, identical to an event I personally witnessed during a recent pistol match in October.

Shooter with a nice 1892 and Fiocchi factory ammunition getting four, possibly five bullets, stacked in the barrel. Fortunately, the shooter was not harmed, but the barrel of the 1892 did exhibit some slight bulging just behind the front sight. After both reading your account and having witnessed a separate identical incident, it would seem the ammunition is at fault.

Can you relay if there was any resolution? I would like to direct the shooter to pursue a similar course of action with Fiocchi if it has been addressed.

Thanks,
Type 96 LMG

I recently purchased one dated 1898 in very nice condition. I also purchased 150 rounds of the fiocchi 8mm lebel ammo for the brass and to shoot some before my dies were delivered for me to reload for it. However, me and 3 others went to the range yesterday and I shot the first 6 rounds. No issues, next person same thing, third person, shoots and it seems like there is no recoil at all. I figured it was cause it’s such a light round and he’s a massive dude and me and the other person aren’t anywhere close to his size. After he shoots his 6 shots I take the revolver back to unload and notice the end of the barrel that meets the cylinder doesn’t have the same light shining in it like it did before. So I suspect something is wrong as I noticed his recoil was much less and low and behold, there is at least 4 squibs in the barrel. I am still trying to get them out (they won’t seem to budge). We feel extremely lucky that it didn’t blow up. But unfortunately I think it might have bulged the barrel as it increases from chamber to about an inch out by about .02” and then tapers back off towards the muzzle. I don’t know if it fully is a bulge but I guess I will take it to a gunsmith. I would love to be able to shoot it again as I’m terribly disappointed that I only got to shoot 6 rounds out of it. I also plan to reach out to fiocchi as well. If the barrel is bulged does anyone know if there is any way to fix it or if it could still be safe to shoot?

 

[bigmancrisler]

Update: I took the revolver to a local gunsmith and he said that he might be able to get the squibs out but wouldn’t guarantee the condition it would be in afterwards and said that even if he could get them out, he personally wouldn’t shoot it again cause of the likelihood that the barrel is bulged. He said it would be a couple weeks before he would have a chance to even get to it if I decided to leave it with him.


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[oberon320]

I recently purchased one dated 1898 in very nice condition. I also purchased 150 rounds of the fiocchi 8mm lebel ammo for the brass and to shoot some before my dies were delivered for me to reload for it. However, me and 3 others went to the range yesterday and I shot the first 6 rounds. No issues, next person same thing, third person, shoots and it seems like there is no recoil at all. I figured it was cause it’s such a light round and he’s a massive dude and me and the other person aren’t anywhere close to his size. After he shoots his 6 shots I take the revolver back to unload and notice the end of the barrel that meets the cylinder doesn’t have the same light shining in it like it did before. So I suspect something is wrong as I noticed his recoil was much less and low and behold, there is at least 4 squibs in the barrel. I am still trying to get them out (they won’t seem to budge). We feel extremely lucky that it didn’t blow up. But unfortunately I think it might have bulged the barrel as it increases from chamber to about an inch out by about .02” and then tapers back off towards the muzzle. I don’t know if it fully is a bulge but I guess I will take it to a gunsmith. I would love to be able to shoot it again as I’m terribly disappointed that I only got to shoot 6 rounds out of it. I also plan to reach out to fiocchi as well. If the barrel is bulged does anyone know if there is any way to fix it or if it could still be safe to shoot?

So that makes THREE confirmed cases of fiocchi causing squibs to the point of bulging the barrel on these 1892's.

It's especially tough since the recoil is already quite light on these guns, the bullet has the same power as a 32 SW long, while the gun weighs 2 lbs, which makes detecting a squib harder for inexperienced shooters.

Honestly the mods should sticky this thread as a warning for people considering buying fiocchi 8mm lebel. Seems like the best use for that ammo at this point is to pull the bullets for the brass.

 

[bigmancrisler]

So that makes THREE confirmed cases of fiocchi causing squibs to the point of bulging the barrel on these 1892's.

It's especially tough since the recoil is already quite light on these guns, the bullet has the same power as a 32 SW long, while the gun weighs 2 lbs, which makes detecting a squib harder for inexperienced shooters.

Honestly the mods should sticky this thread as a warning for people considering buying fiocchi 8mm lebel. Seems like the best use for that ammo at this point is to pull the bullets for the brass.

To fiocchis credit, their customer service has been very responsive and helpful. Once this is resolved I will post more about it.


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[Gewehr98]

I picked up one of these pistols and 200 round of Fiocchi this summer but never got around to shooting it. Many thanks for the post. You most likely saved my gun, fingers and eyesight.

 

[bigmancrisler]

I picked up one of these pistols and 200 round of Fiocchi this summer but never got around to shooting it. Many thanks for the post. You most likely saved my gun, fingers and eyesight.

I would definitely slug your barrel and pull one of the bullets and compare as well. And shoot it at steel or close paper to make sure they come out.


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[bigmancrisler]

Update with fiocchis response: they gave me the option to refund or replace the ammo and covering the cost of clearing the squibs. Again very prompt responses from fiocchi and very professional. This ammo incident put a bad taste in my mouth with fiocchi but their customer service has more than redeemed them in my eyes.


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[Gewehr98]

Update with fiocchis response: they gave me the option to refund or replace the ammo and covering the cost of clearing the squibs. Again very prompt responses from fiocchi and very professional. This ammo incident put a bad taste in my mouth with fiocchi but their customer service has more than redeemed them in my eyes.


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Do you have a lot/batch number on the ammo?

 

[bigmancrisler]

Do you have a lot/batch number on the ammo?

5803007 001 25423423 2685


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[Gewehr98]

5803007 001 25423423 2685


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Thank,you!

 

[bigmancrisler]

Thank,you!

Lmk if you have the same lot number.


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[Gewehr98]

Lmk if you have the same lot number.


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It appears I got a different batch but who knows if it will have the same issues.

 

[bigmancrisler]

It appears I got a different batch but who knows if it will have the same issues. View attachment 3911343 View attachment 3911343

Well if this issue has been going on since 2013 at least, I would assume it’s very possible at least.


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[oberon320]

I would definitely slug your barrel and pull one of the bullets and compare as well. And shoot it at steel or close paper to make sure they come out.

In my experience the fiocchi bullets actually run undersize. It's just their powder charges are so light (fast powder, low case fill) that ignition can be pretty inconsistent, leading to at best poor accuracy, and at worst an undetected squib

Update with fiocchis response: they gave me the option to refund or replace the ammo and covering the cost of clearing the squibs. Again very prompt responses from fiocchi and very professional. This ammo incident put a bad taste in my mouth with fiocchi but their customer service has more than redeemed them in my eyes.

Are they going to cover barrel replacement costs if it's bulged/ringed? I know that dramatically reduces the value of most guns since many consider a bulged barrel to be unsafe to shoot.

 

[bigmancrisler]

In my experience the fiocchi bullets actually run undersize. It's just their powder charges are so light (fast powder, low case fill) that ignition can be pretty inconsistent, leading to at best poor accuracy, and at worst an undetected squib


Are they going to cover barrel replacement costs if it's bulged/ringed? I know that dramatically reduces the value of most guns since many consider a bulged barrel to be unsafe to shoot.

In the email I asked if they would cover the cost of assessment and removing of the squibs their response was:
“Yes, once I have that ammo back from you can send either a refund to cover the cost of the ammo plus the gunsmith fee, or I can cover the fee and send replacement ammo, whichever works best for you.

I am attaching a FedEx return label along with a hazard logo for that ammo. Please package that ammo and attach both the label and the hazard logo so that FedEx knows you are shipping ammo.

Please send me a copy of the SGAmmo receipt along with the gunsmith receipt once they are able to get that finished up for you.”


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[lastditch]

Ongoing issue with other calibers also, I posted the below thread on Jan Still’s board last year for my M1907 Steyr.

I was fortunate enough not to have any squib loads. Post is a good lesson to look for holes.

"Just came across this old post looking for something else. I have the same issue of not ejecting or feeding. First time I just wanted to shoot it to check for function, thought maybe just needed a good cleaning and checking for dried oil or burrs.
Went back after doing a thorough check, brought my chronograph along this time, Fiocchi box states 1070 fps, the best I had was 799 fps with most in the 750 fps range. This is fairly recent ammo, bought about 6 months ago.
So most likely a very mild lawyer proof load for these older guns. For the non reloaders best to be glad there is ammo available for these fine old guns. Hope information helps someone with same issue.
Now I just have to cycle my round by hand to get brass for reloading. Still fun to shoot."
lastditch

 

[Kiernyc]

Shame to hear another revolver, especially an antique one, was damaged. I am not trying to sound too scolding here but when a round does not sound and/or feel right stop shooting. And tell this to anyone with you if they are shooting your gun. A single squib will not cause damage...but you get one chance to notice it.

Somewhat good to hear that Fiocchi customer service is helping though...unfortunately I don't think they will ever fix the underlying ammunition loading problem. I don't know if its negligence or the aforementioned "lawyer loading", but the gross under-loading is potentially just as dangerous as leaning too heavy on the powder thrower.

I will also harp on again that I think Fiocchi's bullet is oversized and thus compounds the problems even further. It measures .329-.330" (for most of its bearing surface). My original French bullets measure .3285" only at the base and begin tapering slightly almost immediately, .327, .326, etc. Original bullets also weight 122 grains, not 111 grains like Fiocchi but this is besides the point.

I think a lot of these issues would be alleviated if Fiocchi switched from FMJ to their black-coated lead bullets for this cartridge.

 

[FrankUSMC]

I just picked up a beautiful 1892 made in 1895. Thank you for this post!!! I was going to ask the gun shop to order me some Fiocchi ammo tomorrow.....nope, not now.
thanks again for sharing your experience.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[bigmancrisler]

Update: fiocchi said they would refund and reimburse me for everything all at once so I’m still just waiting for the gunsmith to be done.


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