[Bob in OHIO]

I need a helping hand on what this goes to, caliber, and possible value for a full box (10 rd) in excellent condition...

 

[Bob in OHIO]

I'm guessing Mod 1871 from a quick search... and 120 yr old ammo to boot!

 

[jimlay]

Wouldn't that be 11.15 x 60R Mauser ammo?

I had a Model 71/84 many years ago and that's what it used.

 

[Helmer]

The box says "Scharfe Patronen M/71," So I think it is safe to assume that these are for the Model 71 and Model 71/84 Mauser. 11.15x60R. No clue about value.

 

[Clay]

My guess is $50 to $100..maybe higher.
I have a couple of 20 round boxes for the 71/84.
I guess that the '71 cartridges came in 10 round boxes.
This is the first 10 round box that I have seen.
Now you will be wanting a nice 71 to go with it....that is where my "older" imperial collection began.


These are some pictures that I took a couple of years ago.

 

[DocAV]

M71 Scharfe patronen

If it says "M71," then it should have a round nose projectile. If it is a flat point (for the M71/84 Tube mag loader), then the packet should state "M71/84".

Of course, M71/84 cartridges(flat point) will work just as well in the single shot M71 Mauser rifle, but NOT vice versa. The use of round nosed M71 in a tube loader is asking for trouble (Big Boom in Mag tube).

Cases are 1888 dated, so this is "New Ammo" , Not arsenal reloads, which are also common.

The correct Military designation is "Scharfe Patrone,Kal.11mm, M71 (or M71/84)"

The designation "11,15x60R" is a Civilian designation to distinguish loads made for civilian trade ( and hence not prohibited).

Nice find, and worth money for sealed and good condition packets.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.

 

[Helmer]

After introducing the flat nosed 71/84 round, did they actually change the designation on the box? The picture seems to show flat nosed rounds, but the box clearly says M/71.

 

[Clay]

Would it be plausable that in 1888 all new production of this round was flat nosed?

Also would it be plausable that 20 round boxes were for the Gew 71/84 and 10 round boxes were for the Gew 71?

Clay

 

[Comrade Antibiotika]

Would it be plausable that in 1888 all new production of this round was flat nosed?

Also would it be plausable that 20 round boxes were for the Gew 71/84 and 10 round boxes were for the Gew 71?

Clay

All new production probably would be for flat nosed since the 71/84 was in service: It's possible that this box got mixed up down the line somewhere- how long has it been in collector hands? They probably would have changed the designation on the box given the possibility of a disaster if one put 71 rounds into a 71/84.

 

[Helmer]

All new production probably would be for flat nosed since the 71/84 was in service: It's possible that this box got mixed up down the line somewhere- how long has it been in collector hands? They probably would have changed the designation on the box given the possibility of a disaster if one put 71 rounds into a 71/84.

It is interesting that both Bob in Ohio and Clay's boxes say M/71, but both appear to be flat tipped bullets. This is hardly a scientific sample, but it leads me to suspect that at least in some instances the boxes of flat tipped ammo were not specifically marked 71/84.

 

[Wapruf2]

I have 4 boxes of 10 and 20 rnds loaded 1888 marked M71 but with flat-nosed bullets.

 

[DocAV]

Boxes of M71/84 Ammo marked M71

Well, in the past I have seen on this board and the IAA Board, boxes marked "M71/84" in a
"superscript/subscript manner", ie, the "M" was full size, and the "71/84" was half size, to fit against the "M". (common European printing usage at the time...occurs also on the Danish M1910/21 Pistol markings (full size "M19 " and half size "10/21").

I would hazard a guess that after the Tube loader was introduced into service, to avoid the Tube loading problem, all ammo was made Flat Pointed; and that the use/manufacture of round nose ammo was discontinued when stocks ran out (the Round nose was only marked "M71" so it would be a really Dumb German supply officer who would issue M71 RNs to troops with 71/84s even for training. ( German soldiers may have had their share of "dumkopf" people, but "befehl ist befehl", and I doubt even the "dummest" of these would have gone against a directive on ammo.

On the other hand, the question about the ten round packets is interesting...M71 Carbines were still on issue after the 71/84 was declared standard...in fact there is NO 71/84 Carbine;

Cavalry were either Lancers, Curassiers, Uhlans, Hussars etc...the carbine (single shot) was an Auxiliary weapon, the Point or Blade being the major one, at least till 1888.

So a ten round packet would be more amenable to Cavalry (M71) users; The Footsoldier, who had Double Pouches of either M71 or M84 design, would have naturally carried more ammo. Correct me If I am wrong, but the M71 Pouch had an internal Block to hold 10 cartridges???

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.

 

[reich1900]

Well it seems that DocAV explains it quite well. I just checked and have one 10 round box but with no worth while marks. However, I also have three 20 round boxes two by DWM and one with I think with Spanish writing but not sure. As for price I would say around $100 for a 20 round box in reasonable condition. I haven't seen any at the gun shows in quite a few years, in the past if I ran across any I would buy it. At that time it was very expensive. I did shoot a couple of rounds of the original ammo and it was a great experiance, all that burning black power and smoke coming out the barrel. Anyhow, Domminion in Canada used to make it but now you have to buy the cases and bullits, reloading your own ammo.
Bernie