Gunboards Forums banner

281 - 300 of 483 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #281
The Great White Fleet, Part 194

2.2. 18 7 20 5 1913 USS South Carolina coaling from USS Cyclops, coaling-at-sea trial with the...jpg
The results of coaling at sea given by the Spencer-Miller-Lidgerwood system were relatively satisfactory, when in 1913

2.2. 18 7 20 5 1914 USS South Carolina 1.jpg 2.2. 18 7 20 5 1914 USS South Carolina Captain Robert Lee Russell.JPG
and 1914 USS South Carolina (BB-26, CO Captain Robert Lee Russell)

2.2. 18 7 20 5 1913 USS Cyclops 1911.jpg 2.2. 18 7 20 5 1913 USS Cyclops LCDR George William Worley.jpg
and USS Cyclops (CO Master LCDR George William Worley)

2.2. 18 7 20 5 1914 USS South Carolina coaling from USS Cyclops 1914 1.jpg 2.2. 18 7 20 5 1914 USS South Carolina coaling from USS Cyclops 1914 2.jpg
engaged in an experimental coaling while under way at sea. Rigging between the two ships was used to transfer two 800-pound bags of coal at a time. The bags were landed on a platform in front of the battleship's forward 12-inch gun turret, and then carried to the bunkers. It showed that this was possible but a very slow method of refueling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #282 (Edited)
The Great White Fleet, Part 195

More Royal Navy Trials


In 1906 the Royal Navy also had trialed the Spencer Miller system, but it found the transfer rate unsatisfactory. To make matters worse, it usually used chartered colliers and those had to take manpower from the receiving ship to load bags, obviously unavailable in an unrep situation, and couldn’t be expected to carry lots of specialized equipment in peacetime. Despite these problems, the Royal Navy investigated several other systems, coming closest to adopting the so-called Metcalf system. Put forward in February 1902 by Chief Engineer Metcalf it was considered, albeit with reservations, worthy of a trial. Metcalf’s scheme envisaged the warship towing the collier loke the Miller system, but using a pair of endless loops carrying bags back and forth instead of only one and with the tension on the cable being maintained by a steam ram. At very little cost the initial trials commenced on shore at Chatham in early 1903 and were considered promising enough to justify progressing to sea trials

2.2. 18 7 22 1 coaling.jpg 2.2. 18 7 22 2 1903 HMS Beagle, sistership og HMS Basilisk.jpg
using the old sloop HMS Basilisk (CO Commander George Couper) as the collier. The original cost estimates for sea trials were soon exceeded and by the time HMS Basilisk was ready the total expenditure had risen to £2,200.

Captain A.R. Wonham, a retired coaling officer who had overseen the Spencer-Miller trials, oversaw these too and reported in November 1903 that they showed that nine-point-nine knots was the best speed to operate the equipment and fifty-four tons per hour was possible in smooth water.

2.2. 18 7 22 2 1903 HMS Revenge.jpg 2.2. 18 7 22 2 1903 HMS Revenge Captain Edward Eden Bradford.jpg
The equipment was even tested at night out under arc lamps, with twenty tons being delivered in twenty minutes to the battleship HMS Revenge (CO Captain Edward Eden Bradford).

2.2. 18 7 22 3 1903 collier SS Torridge in Cardiff harbor 1904.jpg
HMS Basilisk’s limited coal capacity precluded any prolonged evolutions or endurance tests consequently the 5,750 ton collier Torridge was chartered, attached to the Channel Fleet and loaded with 2,000 tons of ready bagged coal ready to commence further trials in June 1905.

2.2. 18 7 22 5 1903 HMS Duncan Captain Henry Bradwardine Jackson.jpg 2.2. 18 7 22 5 1903 HMS Duncan 1901.jpg
Captain Henry Bradwardine Jackson
, CO of the battleship HMS Duncan, reported that the system “should be able to supply coal in ordinary weather to a ship steaming nine or ten knots, at the rate of eighty tons per hour, for which 100 men would be required on board the collier, if the coal was in bags.”
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #283 (Edited)
The Great White Fleet, Part 196

2.2. 18 7 22 9 1906 HMS New Zealand between 1904 and 1911..jpg 2.2. 18 7 23 1906 coaling Royal Navy Metcalfe system HMS New Zealand.jpg
1906 Royal Navy trials of the Metcalf system
with the battleship HMS New Zealand (CO Captain Edward George Shortland) allowed transfer rates of arounf 80 tons per hour, although this still wasn’t enough to convince the Royal Navy to buy more than a single set of the equipment.

Commander Metcalf thought the trials successful enough to suggest “that the apparatus should be supplied and fitted to the warships as part and parcel of her general equipment (and) that the apparatus should be provided for fitting in the colliers.” In contrast the Director of Stores, Sir Frederick W. Black, thought trials had not “resulted in a conspicuous success” and that both Metcalf’s notions were impracticable because of the cost – £2,000 per set – and because of the weight – twelve tons – which “in the shape of top hamper is a very serious matter”. Moreover, the Director of Stores wanted time to evaluate reports of an improved system, invented by the German Georg Leue (Leue-Apparat zum Bekohlen von Kriegsschiffen in Fahrt, Leue device for coaling warships in motion), before making a decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #284
The Great White Fleet, Part 197

Like Metcalf also Georg Leue was convinced that his apparatus was a success. Trials were held in February 1904,

2.2. 18 7 27 1 SMS Neptun.jpg
using the SS Sceleftea as collier with SMS Neptun (ex SMS Friedrich Carl, an ironclad warship built for the Prussian Navy in the mid-1860s)

2.2. 18 7 27 2 SMS Prinz Heinrich.jpg 2.2. 18 7 27 2 Leue Apparat at sea 1.jpg 2.2. 18 7 27 2 Leue Apparat at sea 2.jpg 2.2. 18 7 27 2 Leue Apparat at sea 3.jpg
and then with the armored cruiser SMS Prinz Heinrich (CO Kapitän zur See Erich Gühler).

2.2. 18 7 27 5 Leue Apparat Compensator.jpg
Leue maintained the tension of the ropes between the ships with a complicated, but effective apparatus, called “Ausgleicher” (“compensator”). In addition there was an automatic release of the coal bags over a ramp directly on the deck of the warship.

2.2. 18 7 27 7 Leue Apparat Collier Mast.jpg 2.2. 18 7 27 7 Leue Apparat Collier Sack.jpg
The problem was that the Leue Apparat was not able to transport more than an average of 50 tons per hour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #285
Will I still get an email when a reply was posted and are there still Private Messages?

Are you all still around?
 

·
Oak Leaves with Clusters Member
Joined
·
3,441 Posts
I'll send this as a test for you to see if you get email notifications. We are stuck with the new format so I am just trying to get used to it. Photos are often smaller on my desktop but work OK.

At least I made this thread post first when I click Gunboards but I'm not sure how that worked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #287
I'll send this as a test for you to see if you get email notifications. We are stuck with the new format so I am just trying to get used to it. Photos are often smaller on my desktop but work OK.

At least I made this thread post first when I click Gunboards but I'm not sure how that worked.
nwellons, it worked, I got an email notification, thank you for your help!!

I still do not understand the use of all buttons, but I think or at least hope that most will work.

I inserted thumbnails at the right place into the text (impossible for me with large pictures). They are smaller than in the old forum and unfortunately do not show the caption I always have in the name of the photo. By clicking on the photo you will see it larger with the caption, but unfortunately a series of photos will pop up, more than added to the specific post, and the connection to the text is lost.

I think that in some weeks the old man at my computer will have learned to handle the new forum just like the old forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #290
The Great White Fleet, Part 198

Coaling the Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron


The seven pre-dreadnought battleships, two armored cruisers, four protected cruisers, twelve torpedo boat destroyers and several cargo ships as auxiliaries, a total of forty-two vessels of the Russian Fleet, needed at least 3,000 tons of coal a day.

Therefore the cargo carried by the transports consisted mainly of coal and supplies for the engines. About 18,000 tons of coal were in the holds and 3,500 tons in the pits, plus about 14,500 tons of briquettes, intended to supply the destroyers. Therefore 500 tons of briquettes were placed on each transport in a way that they could be served easily and quickly to the destroyers. In addition, each transport always had to be ready with 3,000 bags for supplying coal to ships.

In anticipation of the difficulties that the squadron might face when loading coal every effort was made to make this task easier for her. Undeterred by the lack of sales to the Royal Navy Thomas Spencer Miller persuaded the Russian and Italian Navies to test his equipment. A month after the outbreak of the war between Japan and Russia the Russians were persuaded enough to order eight complete sets of the Lidgerwood-Miller system to fit onto the warships of the Russian Second Pacific Squadron.

2.2. 18 7 28 1 marine cableway of Thomas Spencer Miller.jpg
The Spencer-Miller systems (системы Спенсер-Миллер) were installed on all transport ships belonging to the DF for transferring coal at sea without anchoring and several of the Russian battleships were coaled by means of those aerial cableways.

In view of the fact that when loading such a large amount of coal, needed by the squadron (22,000 tons for all ships), in some ports there was no way to get a sufficient number of floating equipment. Therefore 34 iron scows (open non self-propelled lighters or barges) were ordered, which were placed on the Black Sea transports. According to calculations, these scows could deliver up to 100 tons per hour, since for practice the acceptance of this amount of coal was carried out approximately under the conditions under which the transports had to then load the coal during the campaign.

Russia had no means to provide the necessary amount of supplies and therefore needed to charter foreign-flag colliers. All were provided by the German civilian passenger line Hamburg-Amerikanische-Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft (HAPAG, also Hamburg-Amerika Linie), to be supplied with coal on their march from the Baltic to the Far East. In addition to their own steamers,

2.2. 18 7 28 2 HAPAG steamer Dortmund.jpg
like the steamer “Dortmund”, the HAPAG also chartered ships of other German shipping companies, for instance of the North German Lloyd and Flensburg lines. Furthermore, also British steamers were involved in considerable numbers. At times, up to 80 own and chartered steamers were in motion for the Russian naval forces. The coal ships did not sail together with the Russian Fleet, but marched separately and met at the intended port of destination or at certain coastal areas with the warships. By operating separated, difficulties should be prevented that could arise from the risk of being no longer considered neutral.

Despite of all those preparation the Russian Baltic fleet in 1905 is an example of a failure of naval infrastructure concerns. This was to a main part caused by the way the Britain, since 1902 an ally of Japan, was able to weaken the Russian fleet through both the control of their own coaling infrastructure, and by exploiting Russia’s lack of infrastructure outside its own waters. Forced to steam via the Cape, as Britain refused the main body of the Russian fleet the use of the Suez Canal, the Russian fleet was also denied fuelling opportunities, delaying its movement and causing vast inconvenience. Although the Russians were able to make use of French coaling infrastructure, they constantly encountered British ships and possessions,

2.2. 18 7 28 Coaling Simons Town South Africa coaling station 1900.JPG
Simon´s Town in South Africa
with its huge coaling station, and were even escorted by British ships around the Iberian coast.

2.2. 18 7 29 Coaling Evgeny Sigizmundovich Politovsky.jpg
Much of our knowledge about the Russian fleet on its journey is provided by Evgeny Sigizmundovich Politovsky (Евгений Сигизмундович Политовский), who was serving Engineer-in-Chief to the 2nd Pacific Squadron. His diary (published as book with the title “From Libava to Tsushima: letters to the wife of the flagship naval engineer of the 2nd Pacific Squadron” “От Либавы до Цусимы: письма к жене флагманского корабельного инженера 2-й Тихоокеанской эскадры”) is quick to recognise the value of coal:

‘Coal! It is our weak spot. Our comings, our goings, our voyage, and even our success depend on coal’.

Later, as the delays mounted up, and the precarious situation the Baltic fleet faced was fully realised, he remarked

‘the coaling question is the question of life’.

The diary constantly laments the lack of coaling infrastructure of his country and the struggles the Russian squadron faced, even with the ability to utilise the coaling stations of France, with infrastructure second only to Britain’s. It also records how the fleet was constantly under the surveillance and at the mercy of the whims of the Royal Navy, which, with the ability to obtain quality fuel worldwide, was a constant presence for the Russian fleet.

When the fleet arrived in Japanese waters, it was weakened from an 18,000-mile journey that had offered little chance for crucial maintenance, and was therefore heavily fouled, reducing its speed significantly in the subsequent battle. It would not be honest to say that it was the coaling infrastructure that decided the Russo-Japanese War, but it is obvious that through its ability to obtain coal worldwide and to deny its rivals the same right, Britain had been able to inconvenience the Russian fleet heavily. One might even say that Britain caused critically damage to a potential enemy’s navy without having to engage it in battle at all. Indeed so firm was the British Empire’s grip over the world’s steam coal and coaling facilities that it was an important economic weapon in itself. The Royal Navy was unique in its ability to project its power across the globe without recourse to logistical support from others. In fact, even outside of a war situation, Britain was able to cripple another naval power. Reports of 1898 from Kiao-Chou, China stated

´that the movements of the German fleet on the China Station are paralysed, owing to Russia and Great Britain having purchased the whole of the coal supplies in the Far East’.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #291
The Great White Fleet, Part 199

2.2. 18 7 36 German coal ships in Port Said.jpg
Photo: German colliers for the squadron in Port Said

2.2. 18 7 36 transports 16 October The squadron in Tangier. Loading coal from German coal ships.jpg
Photo: 16 October, the squadron in Tangier, loading coal from German colliers


2.2. 19 1 stops of the Baltic Fleet, Japanese map.jpg
Support for the Russians came from the French, the Germans and the Portuguese, who allowed the fleet to anchor briefly at a number of ports in its colonies: Vigo Bay in Spain 13 October,

2.2. 19 3 13 October, Squadron in Vigo Loading coal from 5 German coal steamers 1.jpg 2.2. 19 3 13 October, Squadron in Vigo Loading coal from 5 German coal steamers 2.jpg 2.2. 19 3 13 October, Squadron in Vigo Loading coal from 5 German coal steamers 3.jpg 2.2. 19 3 13 October, Squadron in Vigo Loading coal from 5 German coal steamers 4.jpg
Photos
: 13 October, Squadron in Vigo, loading coal from five German steamers

Tangier in Morocco 21 October, Dakar in Senegal 30 October,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #292
The Great White Fleet, Part 200

2.2. 19 3 30 October Squadron in Dakar 1.jpg 2.2. 19 3 30 October Squadron in Dakar 2.jpg 2.2. 19 3 30 October Squadron in Dakar, bridges, all the rest of the free space of the Oriol i...jpg
Photos
: 30 October, Squadron in Dakar. There were 11 mostly German colliers of the Hamburg-American Line Company (one of them was “SS Providence”, 1903, 2,970ts, a chartered British steamer with coal), plus a refrigerator steamer "SS Esperance" under French flag with provisions.

Gabon 13 November, Portuguese Baía dos Tigres (Great Fish Bay) 23 November, German Lüderitz Bay (Portuguese name Angra Pequena) 28 November and Nossi Be (Madagascar) 16 December, then across the Indian Ocean

2.2. 19 3 31 March 1905 coaling during passage.jpg 2.2. 19 3 31 March 1905 coaling Russian battleship 1.jpg
Photos
: 31 March 1905. The coaling during passage from Nossi Be to Cam Ranh was carried out at sea from transports

to Cam Ranh Bay in French Indochina 31 March 1905,

2.2. 20 1 German steamer “Dagmar”.jpg
where the German steamer “SS Dagmar” delivered the mail.

2.2. 20 2 French steamer Eridan.jpg
3 April the French steamer "SS Eridan" (1866, 1,685 ts) brought provisions.

After joining the fleet at Nossi-Be (Madagascar Island) on 28 December 1904, the transports had been divided into 4 sections for ease of control:
Section 1 - "Kamchatka", "Voronezh", "Meteor";
Section 2 - "Anadyr", "Irtysh" (joined the squadron on 26 February), "Mercury";
Section 3 - "Kiev" (flagship of Captain Radlov), "China", "Vladimir";
Section 4 - "Yaroslavl", "Korea", "Tambov", "Rus".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #293
The Great White Fleet, Part 201

2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship 1 (2).jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship 1.jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship 2.jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship bedeoom.jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship cabin of the senior doctor Multanovsky.jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship dining room for convalescents.jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship operating room.jpg 2.2. 21 Orel hospital ship ward for the seriously wounded.jpg

The hospital ship "Orel" («Орёл», CO Captain 2nd rank Yakov Konstantinovich Lakhmatov, капитан 2-го ранга Яков Константинович Лахматов) was ranked among the main forces (joined the squadron in Tangier on 21 October). The transport "Malaya", which was with the squadron, was sent to Russia on 28 December due to her unsatisfactory technical condition. It should be noted that the above schedule omitted the transports "Jupiter" and "Prince Gorchakov" that were with the squadron. It is known that the latter, due to the inability to maintain the squadron speed, was intended to be sent from Madagascar to Russia; however, due to difficulties with German colliers, she was temporarily left with the squadron until the end of the transition through the Indian Ocean.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
Holy Cow, I miss one night of Gun Nutting and everything changes!
I would call this expedition, Russia's first great valiant national effort of the 20th century!.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #295
Holy Cow, I miss one night of Gun Nutting and everything changes!
I would call this expedition, Russia's first great valiant national effort of the 20th century!.
(y), car99, but unfortunately too late and with a fatal end from the Russian standpoint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Fisher was an early advocate for oil as a fuel for the R.N. and from 1886 was often accused as having 'oil mania'. Together with Churchill he provided the impetus for the development of the Persian Gulf oil fields.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #297
Absolutely correct, staffy!

0 Admiral Fisher.jpg 0 Admiral Fisher (left) at his apogee with Lords of the Admiralty, 1907 naval review.jpg
Admiral John Arbuthnot Fisher
, 1st Baron Fisher, was a great visionary and had many good forward-looking ideas. His aim was 'efficiency of the fleet and its instant readiness for war' and he said what British ships needed was 'oil fuel, turbine propulsion, equal gunfire all round, greater speed than any existing vessels of their class, no masts (for sails), no funnels etc.' His “Oil Mania” became the future of the Royal Navy. Here is an early example:

0 HMS Mars refueling Oil 1907.jpg
Originally the battleship HMS Mars had eight coal-fired cylindrical boilers. By 1907–1908, she was re-boilered with oil-fired models. The photo shows her refueling in 1907, which seems to be much easier than coaling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #298
The Great White Fleet, Part 203

2.2.3. Russian 3rd Pacific Squadron

2.2. 22 3rd Pacific Squadron 0 Rear-Admiral Nikolai Ivanovich Nebogatov.jpg
In Cam Ranh Bay the 2nd Pacific Squadron of Admiral Rozhestvensky was joined by another part of the Russian Baltic Fleet, newly named 3rd Pacific Squadron and under the command of Rear-Admiral Nikolai Ivanovich Nebogatov (Николай Иванович Небогатов). Realizing that the remaining ships of the Baltic Fleet were highly unsuited for the task and faced with untrained crews, a number of Russian admirals refused the command. Only Admiral Nebogatov, then head of the Training Division of the Black Sea Fleet, accepted the challenge.

On 11 October 1904, when most of the ships of the 1st Pacific Squadron were destroyed already, at a meeting under the leadership of the General-Admiral Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich, it was decided to form another squadron with two echelons, also from ships of the Russian Baltic Fleet.

The first echelon consisted of

2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 1 Battleship Nicolai I 1.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 1 Battleship Nicolai I 3.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 1 Battleship Nicolai I 6.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 1 Battleship Nicolai I.jpg
the battleship “Imperator Nikolai I” (Император Николай I, 1889, flagship, CO Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Vasilievich Smirnov, капитан 1-го ранга Владимир Васильевич Смирнов),
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #299
The Great White Fleet, Part 204

2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 2 Cruiser Vladimir Monomakh 1.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 2 Cruiser Vladimir Monomakh 2.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 2 Cruiser Vladimir Monomakh 152-mm gun of engineer Gustave Canet 1.jpg
the cruiser “Vladimir Monomakh” (Владимир Мономах, 1883, CO Captain Vladimir Aleksandrovich Popov, капитан 1-го ранга Владимир Александрович Попов)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,519 Posts
Discussion Starter #300 (Edited)
The Great White Fleet, Part 204

the coastal-defense battleships

2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 3 Coast Defense Battleship Admiral Ushakov 1.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 3 Coast Defense Battleship Admiral Ushakov Captain Vladimir Nikol...jpg
“Admiral Ushakov”
(Адмирал Ушаков, 1895, CO Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Nikolaevich Miklukha, капитан 1-го ранга Владимир Николаевич Миклуха),

2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 4 Coast Defense Battleship Admiral Seniavin.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 4 Coast Defense Battleship Admiral Seniavin Captain Sergei Ivanov...jpg
“Admiral Senyavin”
(Адмирал Сенявин, 1896, CO Captain 1st Rank Sergei Ivanovich Grogoryev, капитан 1-го ранга Сергей Иванович Григорьев) and

2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 5 Coast Defense Battleship General-Admiral Apraksin 1.jpg 2.2. 25 3rd Pacific Squadron 5 Coast Defense Battleship General-Admiral Apraksin Captain Nikol...jpg
“General-Admiral Apraksin”
(Генерал-адмирал Апраксин, 1899, CO Captain 1st Rank Nikolay Grigorievich Lishin, капитан 1-го ранга Николай Григорьевич Лишин),
as well as numerous transport ships.
 
281 - 300 of 483 Posts
Top