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Discussion Starter #1
I'm a visitor relating work a bunch of us have done in
making a modern takeoff on the Paradox guns used
in Africa years ago. Ed




 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
mr44--It's called the 12GA From Hell. Smokeless slow rifle powders
in the long brass case. Case is 3.85 inches long, made by putting 12ga
size rim on BMG brass, built in different guns, one taking high pressures
getting 22,000 ft lbs,a Big Borchardt action(Rob), one a Savage 210 with
heavy barrel for moderate pressures,getting top loads of 14,000 ft lbs.
Top load in my Savage pictured above is 600 gr hardened slug at 3400
fps. Here is pic of of effects of slug on 6 gallon sealed plastic water pail.Ed

 

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nice ,,sorry i will pass on shooting that,,i load my smith 500 with a 360gr at 1800 in my H&R ss rifle 4 rounds and i had enough i use the same load in the pistol and it is not too bad.you just ride the wave,24 rounds is all i could take in one day one handed
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's shoots great, even the smaller guys here handle it ok.
Savage is 25 lbs for testing loads, could be 6 lbs lighter for
the field. real thick pad and it can be loaded back.
We also have it in NEF heavy barrel Ultra slug gun,
pic below, and top load is 600 gr at 2500. We just lengthened
factory chamber, like smiths do when going from 3" to 3.5",
only ours is 3.85". Nef is weighted to 15 lbs and thick pad.
Also is a pic of various lead slugs tested.Ed



 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here is picure of cases with old rims turned off,
threaded for the premade rims shown. Also 3
loaded cases with various slugs.Ed

 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Here is picture of an Enfield that I did a
conversion on like the old Mauser shotguns were
redone from Mauser 98 actions. The Enfield
can handle 12ga size cases this way. I have it chambered
for my 700H belted cartridge, which is also made from
BMG brass.I added two rear locking lugs to the bolt for
big cartridge strength.We are also going to do
an 8GA FH on an Enfield.Ed

 

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Hello Hubel458

I love what your doing with NEF,I have one in 270 win and was wondering when you say "we cut the factory chamber deeper like the smiths do", do you mean that robust barrel on the NEF pictured is a factory barrel and not custom? If that is the case I would love to have one,I have a friend who can do the lathe and chamber work,also have a big pile of 50 B.M.G brass on hand.I'm not kidding about wanting one,the seed has been planted!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lee- That NEF Ultra Slug Gun has original rifle slug barrel. Do you reload
12ga shotgun stuff. Nef comes 3" chamber.As for cases we are trying to find
someone new to make the rims and put them on cases.What I tell guys
to start out with is to get 3" NEF, have it lengthened to 3.5", most smiths
have reamer, then load out slower powder loads with 600 gr slug in
plastic.3.5" Cases are only about a dime at Precision Reloading.
And you Still get 2000 plus fps.A way to get started.Or leave it 3"
and get about 1800 fps.Ed
 

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I do not reload any 12 gauge but I'm an not far from it,I have two presses ready to go. Sorry for having to ask,but I'm guessing I can use the NEF 270. receiver that I have and buy a 12 gauge heavy barrel from the company? I was going to send it in anyway for a 44 mag barrel and trigger work.Your right about getting started with plastic hulls,the 3.5" loads at 2,000 f.p.s sounds interesting,and its something that i can manage.Did you have to blow the taper out of the BMG brass for use in the 12gaFH? Seems like getting the size die made would be the hard part for me. Thanks for your time,I'm going to go dig my shotshell reloaders out...
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Lee- Your action has to be an SB2 alloy heat treated one with
larger shotgun firing pin. Best to get whole gun for 250 bucks.
I think you have to send gun in to get another barrel
on it, which is a pain, and it not having big firing pin
they probably would refuse to do it.
Give smith some to go from 3" out to 3.5", or if he
can for long case, which fires 3.5" plastic fine like mine does.
For the long 12ga FH case, after we had a guy put on rims with
CNC, we then annealed cases, and fireformed them. To load plastic loads
you will be near top of shotgun pressures like magnum turkey and goose loads
which expands case bases the max amounts. And they are real hard to size
with regular dies, with the bases getting beat up, rims all bent
in sizing process, and time consuming.So you need a Super
Sizer by MEC, a collet resizer, takes seconds to size case factory perfect,
then case will go through shotgun loader like greased lightning. Also
cases last 3 times longer. I got 300 3.5" cases for about 10-12 cents each,
and few bucks shipping. Our long brass case we figure we have 6 bucks into.
And you can still ream it out to long brass case from the 3.5" if
you do that first. I have hundreds of what were hard to size
3" plastic given to me, that with sizer I can now easily use also.Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It took some doing to make our cases. We had to have BMG
cases with rim machined off. then stub threaded for the premade
rims. All CNC work. Hard to find folks with right machines to do that.
We are working on maybe getting the whole case
built by someone who does it for a living. May be easier.Lot of
companies turning out cases of different kinds. But brass is up in price.
I personally, now that resizing is easy, am liking the 3.5" plastic
as a viable option with good power.Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this
info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they
load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300-
for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to
1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy
with our non-shotgun powder loads, in
a heavy barrel. We setup an Enfield for 8ga.
In the 87 long barreled gun we will be testing
Breneke slugs. Guys are reporting good accuracy
in smooth and rifled barrels. The pictured barrel
on 87 is smooth and we will see how the
slugs in pic stand some speed.Ed


 

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Discussion Starter #17
Tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr
of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers.
This is a heavy barrel for that type of load,
don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels.
The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering
bolt gun for it now..Ed
 

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On the NEF I believe that the 12 ga Ultra Slug Hunter is on a frame that is only shared with the 10 gauge gun. Wait till you actually see either of these, the bbl is reminiscent of a baseball bat. I don't believe that it will even come close to fitting onto a regular SB2 frame.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The newer alloy steel 10 ga frame is called the SB2,
and they also use it for the heavy barrel 12ga Ultra.
I just got a 10MAG SB2 and it is same as my 12 ga
Ultra SB2. Any 12ga slug gun with a stepped down
rifled barrel lighter than the Ultra is a SB1 frame.

In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed
And going heavier in 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed
 
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