Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
6,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Teakwood
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1987 Posts
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 08:32:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have 10-round double-stack mags and have posted pics of the ProMag and the Russian versions. I have never seen a legendary 12-round Russian Mak mag. My assumption has always been that they looked just like the 10-rounders. I have some indications that this is erroneous. For example, I have had a hint that the two indents on either side of the 10-rounder (near the bottom} are not present in the 12-rounder.

Is there anyone out there that can post a pic of a real Russian 12-round mag?
I know that Makarov.com used to sell them, but that pic is long gone from the sight.

Below is a pic of a Russian 10-rounder for reference.
 

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
6,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Steve M
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1027 Posts
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 7:33:04 PM


Pic's , well yes, I got one or two.

First Pic is two 10 round mags , they are 12 round that have been blocked to 10 rounds.
I'm not 100% ( Just 99.9% ) on this , but I'm pretty sure all Hi cap's are either 12 round or 12 blocked to 10.
Two methods were used, The one on the left has the block on the bottom locking plate ( off white plastic or nylon ), the right one has the block as an extended tower on the middle follower ( with a flat metal bottom lock plate ).





Pic of a 12 round mag , short middle follower and metal bottom lock plate.






While we're on it , a pic of the two different types of OEM Russian 12 round mag's, The one on the left is the newer style that we are more use to seeing as they are more common, The right one is what came in with the early import hi cap IJ70's. They have what I call a welded ( spot ) single stack tower, some online sites describe them as aftermarket, They ARE NOT. Looking at them apart, side by side, It's easy to see their Russian origins.






Close up of the two piece OEM 12 round Hi cap mag




The rib's on the side of all mag's are nothing more than creases to increase strength, they don't come any where close to touching the follower's.

Study close and read between the lines.
I hope that answers a lot of question's.
 

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
6,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Teakwood
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1987 Posts
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:42:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Steve M., for the pics. That's just the pictorial I was looking for. I just learned something new about hi-cap mags and the history of the hicap Maks.

The ProMags have a weld across the middle, not the stack area, and are definitely a very dark shiny blue. Also, the footplate on the ProMag is folded sheet metal and is crimped on. The Russian footplates are machined and removable.

Here's a somewhat dim pic of a ProMag POS for comparison.







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - Teakwood on 06/20/2004 11:46:57 PM
 

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
6,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Steve M
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



1027 Posts
Posted - 09/28/2004 : 11:58:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

******* Final Chapter *********
( suggest you print this )
After cutting the cylinder on the long middle follower to a length of about .600",
A pin in the middle follower wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
I chucked up a finishing nail about 1/16" dia. in a drill , spun it against some med. grit sandpaper to rough up the surface for the epoxy to bond to, used it as a drill and ran it into the side of the follower , front to back, not the side. Left about 1/16 of plastic under the hole ( C/L of hole about 3/32 from bottom of follower). Pulled it out to put a slight bend in it to also give the epoxy something to grip on to keep the pin from spinning or moving side to side and out.
roughed up the plastic with the med. grit paper and cleaned everything up with isopropyl alcohol, also cut a washer from the remains of the cylinder upper spring flange.

Mixed the PERMATEX Cold Weld item # 14600 2 part epoxy and filled the lower part of the cylinder to the level of the pin, coated the bottom edge, the washer and stuck it together, let dry a day and sanded the excess glue off, cut the pin flush.
Putting the pin in also requires that about a 1/4 " or so be taken off the center post of the upper follower so that it will insert into the mid follower far enough, the followers should come together ( meet ) at the outer flanges, not the center post and the new bottom, I also cut about 4 coils off the top small spring to allow for the shorter length of the post.
This puppy is now De-Post Ban normal cap mag ( 12 round ), the epoxy hardened like steel and bonded completely to the plastic, I've beat it , kicked it ect, ect, No problems, I trust this fix.




Clockwise from lower left,

short middle follower from a 12 round mag with metal lock plate or from a 10 rnd. with the tall plastic lock plate Cylinder length= .600".

Long Middle follower from a 10 round mag

Long middle follower cut to .600" , pinned and epoxy.

top follower, post in middle cut shorter.

normal top follower

Plastic lower lock plate

next to plastic lower lock with the cylinder pointing up is a steel lock plate from a generic 9mm mag cut to the width and length of the plastic lock. The cylinder can be cut of the plastic lock plate , but the 12th round is hard to load leaving little clearance to insert the mag with the slide closed, the metal replacement plate gives a little extra room. last is a metal lock plate from a 12 rnd mag with a short mid follower or a 10 round with the long mid follower. and the 2 part epoxy.
let me know if confused or if I left something out.
 

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
6,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
o07wray
Gunboards Member



23 Posts
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 6:36:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here is a break down in my 2 diff. mags...

one on the right is a factory 10 rnd mak mag
the one on the left is a 12 rnd mak mag



the only diff is the upper spring length, and the lower follower's upper spring retainer...

cut the lower followers off to 15mm, drill a small 1/8 inch hole 2mm up from the bottom clean through both sides.. insert a metal 1/8 inch pin... cut upper spring to 85mm - 3mm to adj for added pin height & epoxy for a total of 82mm.. make sure to dress the spring with a new "foot".

ruffen up the inside of the lowers follower.. add epoxy up to the holes.. insert pin.. cover top of pin with 1mm of epoxy file outside of pin flush with follower. reassemble.... easy

Recommend Belzona® 1111 Super Metal, this epoxy can turned in a lathe like metal!!!.. great stuff for gun repair... and yes I know this is a plastic job.. bit really not.. remember that we covered the pin with 1mm of epoxy... it makes a plug attached to the pin that would have to pull out the holes in the side of the follower before it would break...

10 round to 12 rounds CHEEP!!! just a little time and a few bucks for the Belzona.


again.. if I ever state anything that might be dangerous or not sound.. please speak up ....I am a "newbee"

this is a link to find and see what BELZONA can do!!http://www.dbrassociates.com/power plant shaft repair.htm

thanks,
o07wray

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - o07wray on 08/25/2005 6:39:13 PM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,646 Posts
Yeah!

It is back. Thanks for the work Tim, but I have to say, this post is already going to the "Dogs". :D :p Does Steve M still have some ideas and pics he can add? Hint, hint. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
12 rnd mag

How can a 12 round mag fit into a single stack 8 round Mak grip? Won't happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
How can a 12 round mag fit into a single stack 8 round Mak grip? Won't happen.
You are... CORRECT!

While the 8 rounders WILL work in hi-cap Makarov pistols, the 10 & 12 round mags will NOT work in the 8 round guns.

Welcome to the forum!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I've been doing some silicone molding to reproduce plastic parts. I'll see if it's possible to just come up with a replacement lower follower that would drop in.

Thanks for the info guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
12 round mags & Mak 100% legit & original

Hello all. I am a first time poster here. I googled Makarov and landed here, so I thought I would share what I have with everyone, since it seems rather rare from what I have read. I'm not a hand gun junkie, but in 1994, I purchased two Makarovs. One in May of that year and the other in October. The one I purchased in May was the standard 8 round unit. Upon hearing of a "hi-capacity" version, I had to have one and found one at a gun & knife show in Fort Wayne, Indiana. On Oct. 14, 1994 (I still have the receipt, I paid $209 + tax) I bought a brand new Russian IJ70-17AH. To this date, I still have the original box, receipt, manual, and grip (in 2001 or so, I put a Pierce grip on the gun). The gun and magazines are a true 12+1. The mags were never "blocked" and have never been altered in any way what so ever. I have put maybe 50 rounds through this gun in all the years I have owned it. Like I said, the mags hold 12 rounds of .380 and in fact, you can almost get a 13th in the magazine, but it bottoms out just short.

Attached are photos.

Gun, 2 mags, and 12 rounds.



Gun, 2 mags, and the same 12 rounds loaded into the magazine.



Backside of the loaded mag.



Frontside of the loaded mag.



Left side of the gun.



Right side of the gun.



Attached
 

·
Moderator / Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
6,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not rare at all, hi-cap Maks are pretty common. The mags are the original franken-mags and a bit unusual. I have had a couple myself, think I still have one somewhere but haven't seen it in a while.

SlimTim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Not rare at all, hi-cap Maks are pretty common.
I thought the true 12 round mags were rare from what I had read other places. But if not, that is cool too.

What is this gun roughly worth in today's market?

Like I said, I'm not a hand gun junkie, so I don't know hand gun values.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
533 Posts
Welcome to the forum dec.

The 12 round mags are harder to find than the 10's, but I wouldn't call them real rare. The big drift of this post was mostly how to tell the "Real Russian" from the pro mags, Big Difference.
also it is fairly easy to convert most of the 10 round to twelve round w/o any cutting and the post kind of became a how to for that.

The values on the hi cap IJ 70 's has been kind of crazy lately and the prices seem to be down a little, $250 to $350, My guess is yours would be on the high end of that.

I just recently bought two NIB conc Serial numbers 9X18 HC for $465.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Can the 10-rd New Pro Mag magazines be converted to 12-rd??
I have been unable to find 12-rd mags to purchase and ended
up with several of the New 10-rd Pro Mags.
Thanks for your consideration
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
Can the 10-rd New Pro Mag magazines be converted to 12-rd??
I have been unable to find 12-rd mags to purchase and ended
up with several of the New 10-rd Pro Mags.
Thanks for your consideration
No. I'm nearly certain they cannot be converted to 12 rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,646 Posts
You can try on this forum, Slim Tim's Makarov Trader:

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Yours look like KBI mags. I have a couple of those that were converted back to the 12 rounders myself. "dec" has a post above that shows the original 12 round mags I believe, you can see some differences from yours. There are some different configurations of the originals I believe but I don't know what they look like, just seem pics from time to time here. Slim Tim or Steve M might have pics.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top