OK, for a well made 12 ga. in good shape I have used from 83 grains 3F (3 dram equiv.) to ~110 grains 3F (4 dram equiv.) with 1 ounce bird shot (I like 71/2). I have used paper and plastic hulls. The 3 dr. is a more effective load. The heavier load tends to cook the doves with its battleship like blast. This also freaks out other folks in the field, but not as bad as when I use my brown bess (9 birds 21 shots [110 grains 3F, including prime, and 1-5/8 oz. of 71/2 shot]. Havn't blown myself to smitheroons .......yet!!! Skip