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Well the 100th Anniversary of Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire has arrived which precipitated the start of WWI a month later.

 

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Sadly, many Americans have little to no clue about the significance of this centenary. For that matter, a good number have hardly any knowledge of WW1, nor it's impact on shaping the world as we know it today.
 

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I think that putting the war and its results at Princip's feet is a bit strong. The war was planned long before the assassination, Germany was looking for an excuse to march into France for more war bootie like 1871. If the Archduke had not been assassinated 100 years ago, the war would have still happened. Germany would have invaded France, Russia would have invaded Germany, the Balkan War was not really over, so I do not see any change if thans had not happened 100 years ago today.
 

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I think that putting the war and its results at Princip's feet is a bit strong. The war was planned long before the assassination, Germany was looking for an excuse to march into France for more war bootie like 1871. If the Archduke had not been assassinated 100 years ago, the war would have still happened. Germany would have invaded France, Russia would have invaded Germany, the Balkan War was not really over, so I do not see any change if thans had not happened 100 years ago today.
I agree. Something else would have set it off.
 

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I've seen the archdukes car and uniform in the Austrian military museum in Vienna. The bullet hole is actually on the lip of the rear window sill and deflected up hitting the archduke high in the right armpit where it tumbled do to the deflection severing an artery. 1/4" lower on the door or higher and most likely the duke would have escaped unhurt or survived the wound.
 

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I think that putting the war and its results at Princip's feet is a bit strong. The war was planned long before the assassination, Germany was looking for an excuse to march into France for more war bootie like 1871. If the Archduke had not been assassinated 100 years ago, the war would have still happened. Germany would have invaded France, Russia would have invaded Germany, the Balkan War was not really over, so I do not see any change if thans had not happened 100 years ago today.
You are, of course, 100% correct. However, the fact remains. This became the event that was used as the excuse to start the war. Blaming Princip as the man who single handedly turned Peace into war is ridiculous, but his assassination of Franz Ferdinand did give those who wanted war the excuse they were waiting for.
 

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I've seen the archdukes car and uniform in the Austrian military museum in Vienna. The bullet hole is actually on the lip of the rear window sill and deflected up hitting the archduke high in the right armpit where it tumbled do to the deflection severing an artery. 1/4" lower on the door or higher and most likely the duke would have escaped unhurt or survived the wound.
Destiny defined in inches.
 

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I think that putting the war and its results at Princip's feet is a bit strong. The war was planned long before the assassination, Germany was looking for an excuse to march into France for more war bootie like 1871. If the Archduke had not been assassinated 100 years ago, the war would have still happened. Germany would have invaded France, Russia would have invaded Germany, the Balkan War was not really over, so I do not see any change if thans had not happened 100 years ago today.
Umm - maybe, sort of.

As for Germany invading France, that was really a preventive war Germany felt that time was not on their side, that France would become stronger than Germany and would then attack them, needed to be beaten down before that happened. Von Schlieffen seems to have felt the optimum time to find an excuse to attack was probably 1912. Perhaps, considering the way things worked out, they should have struck earlier than 1914...

Russia invading Germany - well, once they cut a deal with France, yes that was on, though they were probably more pointed at Austria-Hungary, in the "Protector of the Slavs" mind-set. That is what brought them in once A-H went to war with Serbia.

It IS fair to blame Serbia (and its agent Princip) for the war happening when it did. If the Serbian Secret Service hadn't been stirring anti-Austrian sentiment in Bosnia and other Balkan possessions, things might have been avoided for a while, though not (I fear) forever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well whatever we think nowadays is irrelevant ... it happened and nothing we can do to change it at all. All the what if this and that happened is not going to change the fact it happened the way it did.

Patrick
 

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Careful now, you may injure someone's self esteem.
WWI? That was Hitler vs. Charlemagne, right?

Actually, I always felt sorry especially for Sophie (the Archdutchess). Near as I can figure she was beyond question the totally innocent victim, and as I understand it, the Hapsburg court were such snobs, her children couldn't even inherit the throne.
A life (well, several lives) prematurely ended of people who may not have been saints but didn't deserve execution, either. And I suspect Prinzip was somewhat duped and used, and paid by dying in prison, though seems little doubt he was the shooter.
 

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Well whatever we think nowadays is irrelevant ... it happened and nothing we can do to change it at all. All the what if this and that happened is not going to change the fact it happened the way it did.

Patrick
True enough - but there is a great deal to be learned from the process that led to the convulsion. If people will. It is the sort of thing to be avoided. Rather frighteningly, when i look back on what I saw in the last years of the Cold War (which I lived through - Berlin Crisis, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, etc.), it looks less like lessons learned than dumb luck that kept us from repeating the precess - with nukes...

WWI? That was Hitler vs. Charlemagne, right?

Actually, I always felt sorry especially for Sophie (the Archdutchess). Near as I can figure she was beyond question the totally innocent victim, and as I understand it, the Hapsburg court were such snobs, her children couldn't even inherit the throne.
A life (well, several lives) prematurely ended of people who may not have been saints but didn't deserve execution, either. And I suspect Prinzip was somewhat duped and used, and paid by dying in prison, though seems little doubt he was the shooter.
If Prinzip was "duped and used", he was certainly willing enough. Lacked an understanding of where things might go (all of the captured conspirators said, later, that if they had known things were going to go where they did, then they wouldn't have done it). There is (or should be) no doubt whatever that Gavrilo P. was the shooter.
 

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Princip was dying of TB. He probably would not have outlived the war, in prison or elsewhere.
 

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Princip was dying of TB. He probably would not have outlived the war, in prison or elsewhere.
Oh, I agree Prinzip was certainly willing to pull the trigger or throw a grenade like his co-conspirators. How much they were influenced by Apis the Bull or Serbian military intelligence (or if that story is true) is irrelevant.
Seemed like everybody, individual and national government, were shocked that the war wasn't over by Christmas. Of course, just an earlier example of humanity not learning from history or perhaps that the "triumph of the will" would overcome all obstacles.

I see that in a lot of bosses I have worked for as well. It isn't just politicians. Usually doens't work for the bosses either.
 

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Interesting as all of the causes and circumstances were and still are to a student of History, one of the most interesting assessments of the war when first declared in 1914 was the amazingly accurate predictions of Lord Kitchener, who suggested that the duration of the war would be at least three years and would involve millions of combatants with entire nations mobilizing for war.

Kitchener's position was obviously at odds with many of the generals and politicians around which the events of 1914 revolved. All the more reason for recognizing the size and scope of the tragedy suffered by the Pals Battalions at the Somme in light of the famous recruiting poster bearing Kitchener's likeness.

Warmest regards,

JPS
 
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