[Stopsign32v]

Well I grabbed this last weekend. It is a early Spreewerk no letter P38. I'm told it is a bringback and the paper below is from who I got it from and is between him and the previous owner. Both are known avid collectors. Still we will just say the P38 is a non import marked, all matching one. The up strap/brown belt loop holster it came with is also more uncommon and rare. I'm pretty happy with it. Seller is a friend of mine and I walked away with the whole rig for $800. Well onto the pics

 

[Spaxspore]

Beautiful honest November 1942 produced Spreewerk. Great pictures, thanks for sharing it.

 

[pgaplayerless]

Wonder why "Tracy" was written on the holster. Not a German name or the name of the supposed GI.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Thanks Spax



The only other P38s known to have the eage/18 marking are serial number 2514, 2596, 2630, 2894, and 2853.

 

[pgaplayerless]

Thanks Spax



The only other P38s known to have the eage/18 marking are serial number 2514, 2596, 2630, 2894, and 2853.

I'm seeing Eagle 88?

 

[Stopsign32v]

I'm seeing Eagle 88?

Look closer

 

[Spaxspore]

I'm seeing Eagle 88?

stopsign is referring to the block - 18

 

[pgaplayerless]

Look closer

All the major components are 88s? Barrel, slide, frame. I know small parts on speerwerks were sourced elsewhere.

 

[Spaxspore]

check the locking block.

 

[pgaplayerless]

check the locking block.

Ah ok. Now clue me in why that makes the gun rare?

 

[Spaxspore]

other than the marking and they made only 2000 that month

 

[pgaplayerless]

other than the marking and they made only 2000 that month

Oh the early production and limited numbers in the S/N range I understand. The whole rarity due to WaA18 I do not.

 

[Spaxspore]

Same here, I know enough to be dangerous concerning wartime p38s. But i am not a hard core collector of p38s. I like them and a have a few but i do not know the ins and outs of the uncommonly seen and known markings. Stopsign can you enlighten us to the meaning/purpose of the eagle 18 stamp on a early Spreewerk.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Here is a 6 page thread on it. I had Dave, a moderator on that boards warn me that I might have members asking me to sell it. I had the first PM me within 20 minutes and have since had 2 more. LOL Mosins are hard to leave alone but man do I like the German stuff!



http://p38forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26807&highlight=unusual+stamp

 

[pgaplayerless]

Here is a 6 page thread on it. I had Dave, a moderator on that boards warn me that I might have members asking me to sell it. I had the first PM me within 20 minutes and have since had 2 more. LOL Mosins are hard to leave alone but man do I like the German stuff!



http://p38forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26807&highlight=unusual+stamp

Can't view the page.

From what I recall reading in "Pistole P.38 a její výroba ve firmě SPREEWERK" By Jan Balcar, Speerwerk did not make all the parts for their P38's and instead received them from other facilities as needed. So having minor part of from WaA18 facility would not be anything unusual or "rare" for Speerwerk P38s.

The book has been translated into English too, but it's quite pricey as result. I suggest you look into purchasing one if you want the most detailed research on Speerwerks to date.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Can't view the page.

From what I recall reading in "Pistole P.38 a její výroba ve firmě SPREEWERK" By Jan Balcar, Speerwerk did not make all the parts for their P38's and instead received them from other facilities as needed. So having minor part of from WaA18 facility would not be anything unusual or "rare" for Speerwerk P38s.

The book has been translated into English too, but it's quite pricey as result. I suggest you look into purchasing one if you want the most detailed research on Speerwerks to date.

Thanks! The thread over there was made by a moderator doing research. Is there any way you could register over there so you could share your knowledge and opinion on how the marking isn't unusual or "rare"? How many examples of it have you come across? Just curious. :thumbsup:

I will throw up a few quotes from one page

All,
In connection with other research I am doing, I have spent a bit of time re-reading Albert Speer's old book, Infiltration, How Heinrich Himmler Schemed to build an SS Industrial Empire. According to Speer, Himmler's minions were steadily finding ways to make themselves invaluable to armaments production (beginning in the Spring of 1942). Basically Germany's leadership came to the conclusion that forced laborers were going to be needed to make weapons for Germany. Below is an example of how the Gustlof Work was employed on another documented program for carbine production. It is not too far of a stretch to suggest that perhaps Gustlof technicians and equipment may have been utilized at the Spreewerk too.
“Two “tests” were to be made in the manufacture of carbines: in Buchenwald and in Neunengamme. Schieber* had announced that monthly production of 15,000 carbines should be launched at Buchenwald within three, or at most, four months. This was not an exaggerated goal, just a simple test case; the production” (as in assembly) “of carbines requires little manufacturing expertise. In any case, the machines and expertise were to be supplied by the Gustlof Works.”
Page 18, “Infiltration, How Heinrich Himmler Schemed to build an SS Industrial Empire” Albert Speer,
* Schieber was on Albert Speer's staff, but was also secretly an SS officer on Himmler's staff.
As previously noted, the Gustlof Works waffenamt inspector was assigned Wa18.
The above information is my opinion. Before this idea takes on the mantle of an historically accurate observation, we need to find at least two more examples of locking blocks with waffenamt 18 on them. I think this information and way of looking at the possible involvement of arms producers other than Walther early in Spreewerk production has legs, but needs much more input from other owners of these early P.38's. Please feel free to pester any and all owners of these early guns to check the locking blocks for this unusual stamp.
My gracious thanks to Mark, Steve, Ron and my fellow P.38 collectors out there. Without freely sharing information, I'd be "just another Bozo ridin' the bus to Crazy Town!"
I'm having more fun than I dreamed possible with this hobby. There is indeed always one more P.38 to buy, and one more mystery to discover! Good hunting to you all!
Dave

Guys,
Dave asked me to check serial number 2514 and I have one too, so I think this new inspection stamp may be confirmed ... It is not a broken die!
It appears to be in a specific serial number range.
Mark

Wow! So Dave's discovery now has 3 examples; 2514, 2596, and 2630
I'm beginning to believe!
Hopefully, more members have examples in or near this range and will report a "yes" or "no" to further define it.
I wonder what else hasn't been noticed for 72 years?
Great going guys!!

Thus far only 5 have been found to exist until mine.

 

[curly1]

From that post.

Pictured below is an all matching Spreewerk P.38 made in approximately November of 1942. The earliest Spreewerk P.38's will sometimes have Walther, eagle 359 marked parts and a very few will have an eagle 211 in place of the usual eagle 88. Eagle 18 waffenamt stamps are associated with "Berlin-Suhl-Waffen/Gustlof Werke" (the old Simpson and Suhl plant). They used waffenamt 18 on some of their K98k rifle parts. Waffenamt 18 appears on the locking block where the eagle 88 is normally seen on an otherwise typically marked P.38.

 

[pgaplayerless]

From that post.

Pictured below is an all matching Spreewerk P.38 made in approximately November of 1942. The earliest Spreewerk P.38's will sometimes have Walther, eagle 359 marked parts and a very few will have an eagle 211 in place of the usual eagle 88. Eagle 18 waffenamt stamps are associated with "Berlin-Suhl-Waffen/Gustlof Werke" (the old Simpson and Suhl plant). They used waffenamt 18 on some of their K98k rifle parts. Waffenamt 18 appears on the locking block where the eagle 88 is normally seen on an otherwise typically marked P.38.

Seems to agree with Jan Balcar's book that Speerwerk received components made elsewhere, thus the various WaA's that can be found on them.

 

[Spaxspore]

especially in the early years of their production.

 

[pgaplayerless]

especially in the early years of their production.

Perhaps German collectors get all exited when they see an original gun made with outsourced parts and call that a "rare" gun. But I don't see it as it's already documented to happen at Speerwerk for the small parts that went into making the gun.

I'm sure it might have something to do with their fixation on having all the same WaA's in order for things to be "correct" in their mind, LOL