Russian DWM Luger

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Luger1900

The only cross you were about to receive is a cross on your grave!!

It is the creative stories of some dealers that deserve a cross on their (the stories) graves. Like this one: http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com.../827Russ06.htm

with the hilarious

The safety is marked ОГЪНЪ (Old Russian for Fire) Another way to tell if you have a 'true' Russian Variation.

"Old Russian"... What a wealth of profound knowledge! True Russian variation beyond any doubt, linguistically proven!

[Ron Wood]

Perhaps I should change my avatar?

[Luger1900]

Hey Ron,

You are a 'trip'!! (I am crackin' up on the floor in laughter) - I did not realize that you had such a great sense of humour in your old and wise age!!

Be cool,
Albert

[guns3545]

FWIW, casting out minds back to the origin and nationality of the Russian Court at the beginning of of the 20th century, we find that the language spoken and used by nobilty at this time was French, not Russian, and certainly not Bulgarian. I doubt that many of the Russian royal family could even speak Russian fluently. French most certainly. German most likely. English probably not. This due mainly from the inter-marriage among royalty in Greater Europe of the time. Some historians actually attribute this language/cultural chasm between the Court and the Russian people as a cause of the Revolution and the success of the Bolshevists.

What does this to do with the question at hand; probably nothing. But it could explain a literal translation of the Charge on the 1900/03 French Bicycle shop guns to the translation of Charge in Russian/Bulgarian. Yes, and before you totally flame me, I know it is probably a reach

I am intrigued by the discussion and frankly whether my 1906 Russian is really RUSSIAN or Russian/Bulgarian is less important to me than the fact that it is a righteous gun with a place in history.

Equally, it IS CLEAR that there never was a Mexican Contract, but that does not mean that my 1900 Mexican is not a righteous gun that was used to promote DWM's fortune in that part of the world.

Another historical note. In 1915, the Czarist government ordered 50,000 Government Models .45 cal Colts from Colt's agent in London. This was the civilian version of the Model 1911. These guns were manufactured by Colt in 1915 and 1916 and shipped to England where they were trans-shipped to Russia. Each left the factory in Hartford, CT stamped on the left side of the frame, in Cyrillic letters "English Order". No other crest or other identification separates these Russians fron other commercial Colts leaving the factory at this time.

I would show you the type face but do not know how to use other character sets than English on my computer.

[norme]

English definitely yes! Kaiser Wilhelm II, King George V, and Tsar Nicholas II were all first cousins (grandsons of Queen Victoria). All three were fluent in English. In fact, Wilhelm and Nicholas corresponded frequently, in English, their common language. Regards, Norman

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by guns3545

.. In 1915, the Czarist government ordered 50,000 Government Models .45 cal Colts from Colt's agent in London....I would show you the type face but do not know how to use other character sets than English on my computer.

АНГЛ. ЗАКАЗЪ Ordered 100,000, delivered 51,100 by Jan. 1916.






Here is an excerpt on the foreign pistols in Russian service, purchased & captured:



In Jan. 1913 there were 50 Lugers in 9 mm with 500 rds. each ordered for comparison tests with several other 9 mm pistols. The purchase was commercial, delivered by one F.K. Shifler (not sure if the transliteration is correct, it's Ф. К. Шифлер in Russian), described in Russian sources as "main representative in Russia of the German and Belgian arms factories".

This "English Order" Colt 1911 is an excellent example of Russian orders with their distinct Russian attributes (text).

[Ron Wood]

I LOVE this site! You get to see so many great and interesting things. Thank you gentlemen!

[valbehaved]

It is my understanding, that most of the M1911 colts in the russian order never made it to Russia. Some went down with the ships that were transporting them, and some ended up in Finland(where they were off loaded but never made their way to Russia). The ones, that made it to Russia, were used until ammunition ran out, and some later were taken to China by retreating White Guard. Thus relative scarcity of these guns.
About 300 were imported into Germany by Franconia(german firearms importer) about 10 years ago and a smaller quantity then made it into US. Unfortunately, they were all reblued, either partially or completely.
I have enjoyed reading this topic and would to thank the contributors for very interesting reading.
Regards.
Val

[Pete Ebbink]

Posted this in the past...showing the variations of some of the "Russian" guns here in the USA :
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[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by guns3545

I doubt that many of the Russian royal family could even speak Russian fluently. French most certainly. German most likely. English probably not.

Willy, Nicky, and George corresponded in English.